Done for the season ?

[Jens]

Another trying day with Thumper.
First Thumper died about an hour into today's run. That turned out to be a plugged fuel filter and was diagnosed and fixed in a jiffy. I was feeling rather smug saying to myself that maybe I am getting the hang of this engine thing. That should have been my warning sign.
Another hour down the road Thumper started pounding more than usual and soon it shut down because of high temperature. I started her up again after the temperature had dropped a bit but things were just not right. Instead of about 1750 generator RPM I was down to about 1500. Also there was very loud knocking. I shut her down and tried to turn the flywheel a bit - it was harder to do and there was a definite creaking sound. Oh oh .....
I pulled off the access hatch to the crankcase and heavy smoke started pouring out. After a while that cleared and I examined things. The dipper on cylinder one was no longer reaching into the oil. Dipper # 2 was just barely touching but there appeared to be some splashing still going on. Unfortunately, the big end bearing on #1 was completely dry on the outside ... sort of like the oil had evaporated off the housing.
At that point I decided to call it a night and forget about Thumper for the day.
BTW, I still had oil pressure pulses from the lube pump but it looks like that is not enough lubrication.

I will have a look-see tomorrow when things are not too hot to touch.

[billswan]

Jens

So sorry to hear of the possible failure. Didn't you have an oil level sensor?

If not let me know I have a spare murphy unit. I bought 2 on an ebay auction 1 for my neighbor but it looks like he will never get his listeroid up and running.

Billswan

[veggie]

Not sounding too good Jens. 
The tightness and no dipper contact gets me thinking of a seized con-rod big end.
Hopefully the bore was still getting some oil splashed from the other good dipper.
Keep us posted, and good luck.

veggie

[veggie]

Jens,

Sorry to hear that.   Poor Thumper 
The bore is usually sprayed from flinging oil during rotation.
Unfortunately, you may find some cylinder/piston damage upon further inspection.
If you can find undersized bearing shells, the crank can probably be saved.
Cylinder and piston you probably have in stock?
All in, this my not be too bad. IIRC, you were planning to dismantle the top end for rebuild this summer?

veggie

[Diesel Guy]

Jens,

Sorry about your breakdown. Try this place out for you bearing needs:

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Big-end-shells.html

Good luck,

Diesel Guy

[flywheel]

The bearing are undersize - not oversize, when a crankshaft is reground the journal becomes smaller in od and thus undersized bearing are needed.
                                                   flywheel

[AdeV]

Interesting, this is the first time I have seen over sized bearings being available. Maybe the crankshaft can be reground after all. I will have to check if somebody closer to me has them available ....
Has anyone ever had a crankshaft ground and if so, what was the cost? Was it a single or a twin ?

I may need to get a 6/1 crank re-ground, so will watch with some interest. However, I'd be amazed if it couldn't be done: There's loads of meat on these cranks, after all.

There's a bloke wot I found on t'internet who grinds Porsche cranks for £10 per journal. If it can be done to a Porsche, it can be done to a Lister...

[vdubnut62]

Sorry to hear of your trouble Jens. What a kick in the pants.
Ron

[rl71459]

Jens

Sorry about your recent engine troubles... I am confident you will sort it all out! We DIY types learn our lessons
the hard way sometimes. I have followed/admired your progress for some time now. Mostly because you have done what I had originally planned to do with your system, except you actually succeeded for a good period of time. And I am confident you will overcome this most recent event.

Good Luck
Rob

[billswan]

Jens

If the journal is chewed up to badly you could have it welded up and ground back down to stock size.

You will need to have the crank checked for cracks and see if it is still straight. If it got to hot it might be bent.

Of course if a crank grinder can clean up the journal by grinding to .010 or up to .040 that would be cheapest.

I am surprised that .040 are available.

The big end of the rod is probably trashed.

Good luck will be pulling for you!!

Billswan

[Ian]

Following a TRB failure last December, which caused shrapnel to enter the big end, and caused the big end to wear in a taper fashion...... I had my 12/1 crank reground (here in UK) for £75 cash (10 thou off). I figured that as I had spent £75 on the regrind, I would use original Lister undersized shells - at £100 delivered near enough. Including the new pair of SKF TRBs the total cost was something like £300 all in.

It is another story, but one of the new SKF TRBs gave out after 6 weeks of running (500 hours) and the shrapnel from this also got into the big end. This time I only replaced ONE of the SKF TRBs. The big end journal was scored but I could not be bothered to spend another £75 on regrinding and 20 thou undersized shells - so I put in a set of 10 thou undersized INDIAN shells after cleaniung the journal up as best I could with a bit of emery strrip. The engine has done about 500 - 800 hours since then and currently shows no sign of big end knock or other related issue.

I hope this helps....

Regards,
Ian

[Geno]

I think its pretty unlikely #1 was never getting any oil. IMO a seizure would happen pretty quickly that way. Do you have hollow dippers? The babbit material on the Indian bearings I've seen is pretty thin and shortly after the grooves are gone you'd hit hard metal. The dust is probably babbit. The crank damage could be melted babbit or a scored crank. On a twin the good side is going to make sure the bearing surfaces on bad side get as chewed up as possible. As I'm sure you know once the dipper no longer dips there is no lubrication to the rod bearings or cylinder wall and no cooling for the piston.

I get fumes from the crankcase if I open the hatch after shutdown but never smoke.

My shell, when removed always has oil in it but I've never seen "goo" Partial poly WVO in the oil or overheated oil perhaps? I'm surprised the sumps don't connect somehow so the oil level is always equal. A while back a local guy with a 2.5 ton military truck ran wvo without any of the normal precautions. After it seized the "stuff" that was drained from the engine would definitely qualify as goo.

Good luck

Thanks, Geno

[billswan]

Jens

Just get your wrenches going and strip thumper down to a bare crankcase then you will be able to figure out what needs fixing.

You will then be able to thoroughly clean up everything, it could be some of that casting sand finally got thumper.

You say you have spares? If you have sleeves pistons and rods an undersize bearing and crank grind should not break the bank.

Even if one journal needs to be built up it should not be to bad. Unless the crank is bent or warped that is.
Get both rod and cylinder assembles off and the turn the crank that will tell you something. If the mains are also toasted and it turns hard or squeaks and groans then well you know what that means

Remember if you rebuild what you have you know it is good. If you buy a couple of singles they will probably need clean up like most roids in this world so if the crank is salvageable I would think just use what you have.

Billswan

[mike90045]

Can a twin be made into a single,  leave off the far side connection rod and piston (and pushrods)?

[mobile_bob]

even if the crank is bent or twisted, a good automotive shop that does crank grinding will also have a crank straightener press
to get it into condition to grind.

they will also do a magnaflux on it to make sure there are no cracks before the start the grind process.

it shouldn't be a very costly process to regrind the crank, i am thinking that at most maybe 75 bucks. maybe a bit more depending on
the experience of the shop and if they have to fuss with straightening the crank before they start.

bob g