ouch "solar cooks greenie in his bed!"

[rcavictim]

I spent over 25 years in the housing industry, Building, Sales,and Banking. <snip>
Early adoption of Solar, is the single biggest threat to that wealth building process I see.
Lloyd

Gee, I was never in banking and I see the fractional reserve banking system, the system where banks can freely create money out of thin air and lend it at astronomical interest rates as the single biggest threat to that wealth building process I see.  These banksters get rich sitting on their fat asses doing nothing creative while all the sweat equity of the working man paying off those loans trying to get ahead gets put into the pockets of the fat assed lazy banksters.

[Tom Reed]

The ROI on solar gets kind of interesting if you do like I have. First was the purchase of an "off grid" property. Power is 1 mile away and an easement for that power is questionable so the cost for the 77 acres was about the same for a 1/2 acre lot in town. Then after we built the house we "avoided" the approx. 100k cost of bringing utility power in and spent 35k for a PV system. The system is mounted to a 50 year standing seam metal roof with no feed through's. The roof material uses a reflective surface that keeps the house cool, we have no A/C and the house rarely exceeds 80F in side. Also the panels shade most of the sunny side of the roof and also assist with cooling. Due to the topography of our home site, on the roof was the best place for solar access.

We have enough extra PV power that I installed an electric hot water heater wired for 120v to utilize the extra power. Here we are on March 1 and there is 110F water in the tank waiting for the next shower.

So I figure we achieved ROI the first time we turned on a light switch. And we just got 10.5k tax credit on the system.

The primary component that I believe will be obsoleted in the next few years are the $8K 48 volt battery bank in the basement.

[BruceM]

We can all hope that one of the many "breakthroughs" in battery tech actually happens. Wet lead acid really is pretty pathetic, but still king of bulk storage ($/WH)  though essentially unchanged for well over 80+ yrs.  How many times in the last decade alone have we all read those "breathless" articles about a breakthrough battery, only to have it never materialize.

Here in rural Arizona, Arizona Public Service (APS) now gives you zero free feet for a new hookup, and installed price is now about $50 per foot  for in ground service, $35  in areas still on poles.  With 40 acre lots, even if your neighboring lot has power, you are out $75K for the average of 1500 ft. hookup.  The few new homes being built in this area are now forgoing grid hookup; like Tom they'd rather be their own power co.

[mbryner]

Jedon,  you detoured me on that castlemagic.com site for the last 45 minutes.   Very cool!  Except not too many people are going to build them at $400-600/sq ft!!!

[BruceM]

The Castlemagic method of insulating the inside stone wall while tying it to the outside wall for stability looks interesting.  So does the attempt at steel reinforcing.  Alas, the bottom floor of the inside wall  is problematic as the inner wall is so heavy it's footing can't be insulated- and that footing must be substantially steel ted to the outer wall footing.  Stone, concrete and steel are poor insulators.  That wall will be a chilly heat sink to the earth. 

I ran into the same issue (on a smaller scale) when considering some stone interior walls for my radiant slab house...even though in this case one could use foam under a broad mini-footing, it complicated the slab design to the point of absurdity (for a small ranch house). 

[mbryner]

That wall will be a chilly heat sink to the earth.

Whoever can afford to build a castle like that can probably afford to throw many millions of BTU's into the floor to keep it warm, though, even if it does go right into the ground. 

[Jedon]

I had decided that the castle magic construction techniques, while very cool were way to expensive so I settled on using Rastra Blocks until I switched house designs altogether.
http://www.rastra.com/

[mobile_bob]

a quote from "ettore' bugatti" to some crown prince who came back complaining
that his new race car was hard to start  on cold mornings...

"if  you can afford one of my cars, you can afford a heated garage, now away with you"

i too took a look at the castle website, how cool is that?

first thing i though of was how impossible it is to heat and cool a heavy stone structure

once it is hot, it will stay that way till late fall, once cold it will stay that way till late spring

and it take jillions of btu's to effect much if any change.

in more temperate area's of the world they might well be easy to live in, but in idaho?

i know i would not try one in kansas, even if i were a multibillionaire, because i know i would be a multibrokenaire
trying to control the inner climate.

bob g

[rbodell]

Ouch indeed...

...although having read the whole thread, one does wonder if the "installer" was actually the home owner, using the cheapest panels he could find, and what looks like some old Meccano to lash it to his roof...

Personally, I'm not sold on the whole PV thing: They're expensive, have short lifespans, and are not particularly efficient. When - not if - I move to sunnier climes, I plan to have a solar hot water system, which is much safer IMHO, and more efficient, even if it does provide a lower grade of energy.

There is a place you can lease to own solar panels. They install them and there is no down payment. You can transfer or pay them off If you sell the home too. If there is a problem you can go back to them.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/03/05/2018937/a-bright-idea-on-solar-panel-leasing.html

[rcavictim]

There is a place you can lease to own solar panels. They install them and there is no down payment. You can transfer or pay them off If you sell the home too. If there is a problem you can go back to them.

That sounds like some stupid idea created by the mind of a bankster.  By 'stupid idea' I mean great for the Leasor, not such a great deal for the Leasee.  If it wasn't so it would not exist.  Think about it.

[rbodell]

That sounds like some stupid idea created by the mind of a bankster.  By 'stupid idea' I mean great for the Leasor, not such a great deal for the Leasee.  If it wasn't so it would not exist.  Think about it.

That is what I thought too, but how many of us have a 35 dollar a month electric bill? If I had the average house, I wouldn't care if they hooked my house up to a whale oil lamp. if it provided all my electricity for $35 a month for the next 15 years, I wouldn't care if I owned it then or not. TXU is a major electric company here in Texas so it Obviously is not a scam.

[rbodell]

Here is the TXU website
http://www.txu.com/about/Press_Releases_TXU_Energy_Solar_Power.htm

[rcavictim]

That sounds like some stupid idea created by the mind of a bankster.  By 'stupid idea' I mean great for the Leasor, not such a great deal for the Leasee.  If it wasn't so it would not exist.  Think about it.

That is what I thought too, but how many of us have a 35 dollar a month electric bill? If I had the average house, I wouldn't care if they hooked my house up to a whale oil lamp. if it provided all my electricity for $35 a month for the next 15 years, I wouldn't care if I owned it then or not. TXU is a major electric company here in Texas so it Obviously is not a scam.

Just because a major corporation is doing something does not mean it isn't a scam.  As I pointed out earlier, all legit above board bank loans are one of the most ingenious scams going and they are designed entirely to help the banksters, not the poor folks who take out the loans.  The only thing you need to know about corporations is that they do nothing for their customers ever if it isn't going to do a lot more for their own shareholders.  That is the bottom line.

I was unable to access the power co website you posted.

[rbodell]

Just because a major corporation is doing something does not mean it isn't a scam. 

But by the same token, it doesn't mean it is either. Would you risk a multi billion dollar corporation for a couple million?

As I pointed out earlier, all legit above board bank loans are one of the most ingenious scams going and they are designed entirely to help the banksters, not the poor folks who take out the loans. 

Obviously you have a bad taste in your mouth for big business, but that doesn't mean they are all scams, even though you feel they are. I personally do not use credit, but I wonder how many of you out there would have a house and car if it wasn't for credit. I had to accept living in a 192 square foot home to avoid using credit. Is there anybody out there that would like to trade their home for mine? Most of you probably are amazed that I can live in that small of a space. 

The only thing you need to know about corporations is that they do nothing for their customers ever if it isn't going to do a lot more for their own shareholders.  That is the bottom line.
That is what is called free enterprise. The alternative would be the government owning all the businesses. What is that going to do for the people?

remember too, what is that little mom and pop store going to do for the people? Pop can't buy by the trainload like Walmart can so their prices will be even higher than the big company. Pop couldn't afford to give credit too. If you don't have the money, your kids go hungry. Nobody likes to pay interest, but we are adapted to credit and until we can wean ourselves away from it, we need it. Not everybody wants to not have credit too. 


I was unable to access the power co website you posted.
I just tried it again and it worked. Try it again, maybe your ISP hick-uped at the same time it was trying to load. It appeared to be pretty simple html, so I doubt it had any Java or other fancy code in it.

[Crofter]

rcavictim, I very much agree with your assessment of the solar rental scheme in particular and all such schemes in general. Press release enthusiasm is surely there to lure the gullible. (at least IMHO) I am constantly being telemarketed and door step confronted by salesmen trying to get me to sign up with energy resellers that are supposedly going to save ME money; ya, right! If it seems too good to be true..............!

I wouldn't worry too much about defending your opinion, Lol!