Purchased a Changfa R165 watercooled diesel engine, question about flywheel play

[glort]

Saw a watercooled 165 at the engine show today.
Had an external oil filter and obviously pressure lube. Hideous paint job but I thought of all the work you have put into yours jesse and figured least I could do would be strip what I had to, sandblast and repaint something appropriate.

Found owner but he wouldn't sell.  Seemed a bit annoyed at the question actually so the conversation was short. I think he may have been a bit pissed off I was more interested in the engine than the historic vehicle he was towing the trailer with the engine was sitting on.

He had made an interesting mod to the pullet though in that he had somehow bolted a metal disk to the outside of the oem pulley then seemed to weld a shaft onto that and put another removable pulley onto it.
Brother in law is coming for lunch tomorrow so I'll hit him up and see what he can/ will do for me.
I'd be happy with a plate that bolted tot he flywheel with a 1" shaft and an end turned to 3/4" so I could mount whatever pulley I wanted.

[Jesse McB]

My Kubota EL300AR has them bolt on shafts that attaches like the changfas pulleys. It would be nice to have one for my r165 engine as the original pulley sucks lol. It's like something made from Fred flintstones the centre bore is outta whack like willy wonka

I've been busy working last few days installing chain link fencing, now I got that all finished I have a day job tommorow installing vynal flooring then I'll have a week off from work! I'm doing private contracting with my brother and cousin, it's nice becuase having no boss we work hard for a week then take a week off. So now I'm gonna have sometime to get my
Engine started and do some testing, I have to get some motor oil and do some of the wiring and she'll be ready for her first test run! Hopefully tommorow but depends if I'm finished work early  

[Jesse McB]

Pics

I gotta do some wireing and shes set to run!!!

[Jesse McB]

Pics

[Jesse McB]

Heres the engine all ready to run! I gotta get some crank case oil then shes set!!  im very excited!!

[Jesse McB]

I had the engine running for 1.5 hours and it ran great! I took off my homemade  air cleaner before i made the video because i noticed it restricted airflow, i didnt run it for long after since it can damage the engine without it. I find that it had a lot of torque on the low end speed. I have some videos I'll post on YouTube tonite hopefully and I'll Post a few links to them.  So the engine works great no oil leaks ! The engine is still just as clean before I started it! No oil leaks makes me very happy! My heat gauge sensor works half the time I'll have to replace it with a better quality one, and the fans switch sensor don't work either lol, I got these sensors on eBay from China at a cheap price   but I find I don't need a fan sensor as the thermostats keeps the engine at proper temp while idling anyways! So Less parts to fail! The engine actually is well balanced it's stays in one spot ! My other R170 clone hopped around  

So I'm wondering, anyone know how much power the field coil in a 110 amp alternator draws? I find the load of just the field Coil keeps the little diesel happily at hot temps while at lower Rpms. The engine heats up to over
90 C while idling in about 90 seconds after cold startup. The thermostat works great it helps the engine warmup process a lot! I used a 400 watt hair dryer which is 800 watts on the engine after inverter and alternator deficiency losses, it ran really well! I even had it idling at very low rpm and it power 800 watts at 14 volts! It was chugging like a shot gun and blowing soot, I know it's not good to do that a lot, but was fun to watch!!!!   I'll post vids of it idling with a heavy engine load of 800 watts haha, it's amazing how much power these small diesels got!!

[Jesse McB]

Heres a link of the engine running

https://youtu.be/6CNqmq3o-MM

And heres a link with me messing around with lower rpm and high loads  

https://youtu.be/jH5MYJxc418


So i checked on the engine and im impressed how smooth it turns over, the new skf 6307 crank bearings i installed were well worth it! I still remember the feeling turning this engine over before i did the major upgrading overhaul, it didnt feel so smooth. So one thing i hear people mention about these engines is they do like being run at all speeds as long as you give them a good ripp every here and there  

[mobile_bob]

in my ever so humble opinion

this idea or philosophy of "KISS" at all cost is over rated!

"less parts to fail" has its merits, but there is really no substitute for the use of good technology to get to a better end result in my thinking, or rather experience.

KISS has its place, but there is a tradeoff that must be made, or rather a compromise.

of course there is nothing more KISS than a tank cooled convection system, but in testing you will find the efficiency will be lower in most all cases.

what i am getting at, is this

yes the tstat will moderate temperatures in the engine, or rather control them, however the limit will be about 195F (or whatever stat you use) and the efficiency will be higher running at higher coolant temps,(provided of course you can control things)

with a fan controlled system, the tstat really only works when the engine is cold and opens at 195F (or whatever) and then once open the engine temp rises, where the fan moderates the temperature via the fan temp switch... this generally allows the engine to run up to around 205-215F or so and in most cases in tighter control which equates to less thermal expansion changes (lower stresses) and less heat rejection from the combustion chamber to the coolant, which ends up relating to higher efficiency (and it is not only measureable but significant).

when you think about reliability of the technologies  involved, the tech is mature as it is older than a lot of folks working with the engines. and really how many car engine's (trucks and others) have overheat failures? save for poorly maintained and never checked under the hood applications, operated by folks that have no idea where to put the oil or water in anyway.

so?

don't shy away from using sensors and temp switches to control things, nothing wrong with cheap china stuff to prototype with, just replace with quality stuff once you get the kinks/bugs worked out.... i think the end result will be much less of a headache and much more reliable.

the little engine has a very limited coolant capacity to start with, so unless you plan on babysitting it while it is running, i would think adding some controls/electrics/electronics would be beneficial... seems like 50 bucks or so is a cheap babysitter that if done right is going to be a better job and react far faster than most of us.

if that makes sense.

don't get me wrong, i like what you have done, and i really like that little engine

just wish i had a couple of them with the electric start option.

fwiw
bob g

[Jesse McB]

Thanks bob for your awsome advice!!  Im consider looking for senors from junked cars or maybe buy from ebay. I will have to do more testing on the engine with a bigger load, i wounder if i have to small of a cooling fan, the temps stay around 97 C so its seems good temp, but i havent went passed 800 watts total engine load. Im gonna write all my tests here so this thread is not over yet!! 

[glort]

I had the engine running for 1.5 hours and it ran great!

Jesse, I admit, I am laughing at you!

There seems to be surprise in your comments about how well your engine runs. After all the time and effort you have put into it, how could it run anything but perfect?   And you are surprised at no oil leaks? again, after all the time and care you put into it, why would there be any?  You have been pedantic with this thing and been so over the top with it I could not be less surprised it has turned out as beautiful as it has.

I opened the vid and in about a second said out loud to myself , "WOW!"  That thing runs SO smooth! I know what my own is like and it's a great little engine but that one is something else. Barely a vibration. Mine walks itself around the concrete. The thing looks as good as it runs and vice versa. It's a real credit to you mate. Only problem now is although you built it for work, it looks and runs too nice.  You have turned the thing from a work horse to what A mate and I call something just for " Sippin". IE, like a really good scotch you just sip straight rather than drink, this thing I'd just pull up a chair and sip a drink while watching, listening and admiring it while it ran.   

So I'm wondering, anyone know how much power the field coil in a 110 amp alternator draws?

Depending on the alt usually around 3-4 amps.

The engine heats up to over 90 C while idling in about 90 seconds after cold startup.

Got to say, I find that a bit alarming.  Don't have any experience with these engines in water cooled but in general diesels run pretty cool especially at idle.  Maybe the alt was charging the battery or there was more load than you thought.  For that mass ( water and engine Cylinder if not whole block) to go from ambient to 90 in a min and a half seems bloody fast to me.  Maybe the volume of the jacket is very small but with a low load, I very much doubt the exhaust of my engine would get that hot that fast.
If it's not overheating I guess there is no problem but when you do load it up for the first time and give it a good run, I would keep an eye on it. Not that you wouldn't anyway.

I even had it idling at very low rpm and it power 800 watts at 14 volts! It was chugging like a shot gun and blowing soot, I know it's not good to do that a lot, but was fun to watch!!!!   I'll post vids of it idling with a heavy engine load of 800 watts haha, it's amazing how much power these small diesels got!!

I also laughed at you bogging the engine down. That's exactly what I do and my engine does the same thing. They are tough little buggers and I know they will take " amusement" like that all day long and not flinch.
I think maybe the smaller ones are extra over built. If you look at the size of the components in them and compare to larger engines, they must have a pretty low loading stress rate in comparison.
Like I have said before, My little 165 rated at 3.5 Hp will out pull every other 5 and 6 Hp engine I have got and I have a few now.  Be interesting to see how the new 170 goes.  Haven't loaded that yet as I'm waiting on BIL to make me a pulley and shaft for the thing. If it's anything like the little one, I should be able to get 9 hp out of that when put to the wall.

You have done a great job with the engine mate. Thanks for sharing the build and the vids of it running.

As  Viewer request.....
I'd like to see the thing with an amp meter fully loaded and see what it will pull.  You can get meters off flea bay ( or your other numerous suppliers) that have shunts on them. Should be able to get them to 100A with no problems.  For a load, you can get some rods and weld flat metal plates to them, one set for each pole. Multiple plates on each pole is good. Put them in a bucket of water ( don't let them touch!)  and add Caustic. Salt may do too. The more you add the more conductive the water becomes.  This is how the Dreamers make HoHoHo gas that supposedly give you 100 MPG out of a fully loaded mack truck going up a mountain side, but on a useful application, it makes for a great High power dump load for testing.  Also acts like a Kettle so it will boil after a while which is why it's good to use plenty of water if  you want to test for longer times.

Of course you can also use inverters and heating elements if you have them.

I look forward to the second half of " Jesse's Little engine that Could" story!

Did you manage to get the bigger engine you were talking about?

[glort]

this idea or philosophy of "KISS" at all cost is over rated!

"less parts to fail" has its merits, but there is really no substitute for the use of good technology to get to a better end result in my thinking, or rather experience.

KISS has its place, but there is a tradeoff that must be made, or rather a compromise.

I Could NOT agree with you more Bob!

People seem obsessed with this Simple and bulletproof idea but I think it is pretty much completely flawed.
You can't make anything bullet proof, there is always something that will fail. A belt, a filter that will block or mechanical failure.  thinking that keeping a setup in the stone age will make it infallible is kidding one's self.

As you mention, there seems to be a think with sensors and fans for cooling. Look at the auto industry. millions of cars use sensors and electric fans and have for 30 years and how many fail? If a sensor goes, usually it fails into the always on mode so the vehicle still has no real cooling problem. Yes, there will always be failures that cause damage but are you going to base your setup on the one in a million chance or the infinitely greater likelihood it will be fine and give you a much better and efficient setup over all.  Radiator hoses fail too but e don't stop using them because they can and do cause an engine to cook.
Everything can fail but the wise man keeps some spares around and knows how to replace them in addition to doing preventative maintenance like changing things at intervals before they fail such as belts and hoses.

Modern electronics are so widespread and reliable now I do not understand why people have this aversion to them in the DIY and particularly DIY power interest groups.
People get all pissy about them which makes me laugh. get your head out of the stone ages and catch up to reality.

You mean to tell me people have no problem getting on a plane that does 600 MPH 5 miles up in the sky that is controlled and guided by electronics/ computers and wires yet they don't trust  little controller to run a fan to keep their old lump of an engine temps in check?  Seriously?  Do these same people realise that even if their own cars throttle, steering and sometimes brakes are only connected by wires and computers that the cars coming towards them on the other side of the road might be?.... But they still think an electric fan controlled by a simple sensor is too unreliable and likely to fail for them to put on their old chugging lump? C'mon!
If you are driving anything built in the last 20 years, how you think that is keeping cool in traffic and what do you think is switching it on and off?  A sensor signaling a computer is what!
Then again, every time I go to the wrecking yard people still come in wanting manual cars because they think autos are unreliable and use more fuel.  Yeah, Might be time to drag your arse along 30 years to the present and realise things have changed a bit.

Do people realise how many computers we sell a year for cars? 1-2 and of those, 1 won't be the problem and the git that bought it after we told them it wasn't the problem will try to bring it back and the other one will be replacing one that sat under water for at least days. one dunking isn't enough to kill them.
The only time we sell a fan is when one is collision damaged.

The bit that really makes me laugh is the times I see people busting a gut to keep things simple and reliable and then building in more failure points to their setup than the " Complicated" or " unreliable" option they reject would ever have. 

The best way now is to use the reliable and proven technology to make things as simple as possible and do a better and more efficient job often at lower overall cost.

[Jesse McB]

Thanks everyone for all the compliments and advice!! bob.. , I had a feeling me mentioning about the sensors, less parts to fail,   actually I want to go to the fullest with the new technology's on this engine! Just I really meant is I can't rely on the China fan sensor kit that I purchased, I would rather use sensors from an old car actually! I check eBay and they are expensive, I may check my local car parts store instead! I never used the China sensors yet they are brand new and they don't even work?!!  So first thing I have in my mind is do I have a powerful enough cooling fan? I find that it stays hot while running lower loads, is that the thermostat closing to keep it regulated? I can't say for sure till I buy a big inverter over 1000 watts to try a big load. I feel I may have to buy a second cooling fan and cram it in!

Ok see heres how it went when I first started the engine the other day, I was very excited and left out a few important things to mention on my last posts, today I actually got a good memory on how it went. So when I first started, I had it idling, the temps went up to 95C in about 90 seconds.  Remember the water jacket only holds about a pop cans worth of fluids in these smaller diesels    I remember now I shut the engine down when I noticed the heat gauge went up so quickly, and I found my pump wires not connected   So I connected the wires and restarted and did some running after that for over an hour. That explains that fast heat up, maybe it's just unavoidable with a thermostat in the stop plate? It's what I intended it for so it heats up quick!! It's better for the engine so it's has less wear and tear!  Next time I'm gonna start it up I'm gonna see how long it warms up, also I may have had the alternator field coil on the first startup so I will do another complete test soon!

I'm gonna find a powerful inverter to buy in my neiboorhood big box store ASAP and do some experimenting!

Also weird thing to mention !! Someone I know wants me to try melted bacon fat as fuel, lol I don't thing it would work so well? gum up, and water in it i would imagine.

[Jesse McB]

I bought a 800 watt inverter today and did more testing.

It took aprox 6 minutes for the engine to hit 85c while idling so thats actually how long it takes to warm up. i really must of been so excited that i forgot how long it took to warmup  i ran it with a 400 watt hair dryer for about 30 min and it ran good! Then increased the rpm abit more and noticed the heat slowly climed pass 100C, so i will buy another cooling fan. Im using the engines coolant system to its max. The engine load was probly  at around 850 watts after alternator and belt deficiency losses to run the 400 watt hairdryer. When i add another fan im sure i will need a fan switch setup to keep it from being to cool when i run a lighter load.

I have multiple fun ideas for this engine, that i might make a small go kart with a heated cab for winter use.  Can use it to tour my wooded property up in Nova Scoita lol. Id love to see how it handle hill climbing, to hear it putt along and billows of soot! Its not good but its cool!!  

About the larger diesel engine,  I did not manage to find a way to get the engine yet, but good news is i bought a van for myself and it will be ready at the dealership on monday so i will use it to grab it if its available by then !!

[glort]

Also weird thing to mention !! Someone I know wants me to try melted bacon fat as fuel, lol I don't thing it would work so well? gum up, and water in it i would imagine.

You would never notice the difference with the Fat except it smells good.

I have run about everything I can think of in my diesels.  Veg oil engine oil, Turps, Kero, Jet fuel ( with added veg)  tranny fluid, gear oil, coconut oil, Candle wax and... Lard, Duck fat and Bacon Grease.
Fat is actually a REALLY good fuel. I don't recommend it in winter as you don't want it congealing but I used it as a summer fuel and really liked it.  I heated a couple of 25L drums of the stuff up, put it in my old Mercedes ( in the boot in the drums as I took the fuel tank out and never replaced it) and took it down the coast with the kids and a mate for a day at the beach.  It stayed hot enough to remain liquid ( comes back from the IP hotter than it went in) and I remember that as a really good day that stands out in my memories.

If you had the bacon fat good and hot for a while on the stove the water would boil off. Once it stops bubbling with nothing in it, it's dry. try to keep it under smoking much, that deteriorates any oil or fat.  Let it cool a bit before you feed the engine as it might be hot enough to melt or soften any non metal fuel line enough to come loose and I'd have the engine warmed up so it does not get to the IP and go thick.  It melts at about 40C so well within the engines temp range.
I think you'd find running grease an anticlimax.  People expect engines to suddenly behave different on oils or fats but sometimes you can't even smell the difference. The duck fat I got a load of thanks to a chinese restaurant owner had a real aroma to it raw but when burned in the engine had very little smell at all and when a mate and I converted it to biodiesel, it smelt like veg.
The coconut oil had an incredible mouthwatering aroma and we were looking forward to filling the air with a fragrant perfume burning that but again, nothing but disappointment that time. The bacon fat I remember as having a very slight aroma. Didn't burn much, takes a LOT of bacon to get even a liter of the stuff.

As for Gumming up, You'd have to be rolling coal a really long time for that to happen and it would not be gum as in sticky varnish type stuff but carbon you'd get with anything else including diesel. Fats in fact burn really clean and well. Better than veg I'd say. The problem is in the preheat. In the beginning of the Veg fuel thing people were actually using fat. The engine had to be warmed up on diesel and the fuel tank for the fats had to have a heating coil and the fuel line was often a tube in tube arrangement with coolant surrounding the fuel line to stop the fats congealing.  They went to veg being liquid but many of the old and needless practices like the idea the fuel needs to be heated as much as possible which is complete crap, still carry's on.

I have put at least 10 times more veg through my engines than diesel and to be honest, I feel uneasy when I run diesel in them and really nervous when I don't have any veg to add. Diesel these days is really dry stuff and not at all good at lubing pumps.  If I have no veg I add some 2 stroke. 100:1 increases the lube factor off the scale.

Don't be scared to give the bacon or any fat or oil a try. It all works fine and you won't tell much difference.

As for the heat up, I'm still a bit intreauged/ misunderstanding that. I relate everything to my veg burning activities and have a real clear idea of thermodynamics and heat input.

If the jacket holds as you say a soft drink cans worth, you still have to heat up a considerable amount of metal as well, at least a couple of KG. If I wanted to heat that sort of thermal mass to 90oC, I'm going to have to apply a LOT more energy than I know is in the amount of fuel an idling engine or even one under a few hundred watts of load contains. I know how much small diesels use, because I have fed them so many times from clear fuel lines and watch it go down.  given there is about 10KW of power in a litre of fuel and the engines are doing barely 3 KW, you can see how much fuel they are going to use in 90 sec.

Add to this you are only getting 1/3rd the heat of the fuel burned into the coolant, the other 3rd is going to the exhaust and another 3rd to the mechanical power and losses. It would seem in my guestimation that at full load this engine would be lucky to use 100Ml of fuel a minute so if you are talking 45 Ml to heat in 90 sec, I can't see enough energy to get the water alone to 90 let alone the thermal mass of the cylinder itself which would also have to come to that temp. I understand the coolant wasn't circulating but that does not make any difference to what i'm thinking.  There was probably some thermosyphoning and heat transfer going on to a greater amount of coolant anyway.

Not trying to call you out or something but just trying to make sense of it.  Makes me think that perhaps your gauge was pretty off because just for the jacket to get that hot that quick plays on the ADD or whatever I have with this stuff! I can't see how it could happen other than a bad gauge reading or the sensor picking up a very localised heating in the jacket from the exhaust or something.

I'd keep this engine for generating or something stationary. It's a looker as well as a workhorse. Put the other engine in a buggy.  being bigger it would probably be a better proposition.

I have been thinking about putting one of my collection into a lawn tractor. There are no manufactured ones here that have horozontal shafts and I'd want one that was super low geared and 4 WD for pulling out bushes and towing offcuts from trees around. Was thinking of a couple of Diffs from subarus which would give me suspension as well but no idea of what to use for a gearbox. Might ba able to use a suby one and have the front diff built in and gear the engine down to it. If I used a dual range box in low range it might be OK and the weight may be a help as well. For the foreseeable future I don't have the time or space for such a project so i'll keep an eye out for a little Kubota with a  bucket and backhoe.

[Jesse McB]

I'll have more info soon on the little changfa diesel! Currently busy with some work but I did manage to run the engine alittle more! I will need a more powerful Cooling fan, the temps stay good till I load it with about 400 watts, so that's about 900 watts total or maybe a little more after deficiencys. The current cooling fan is more like a overpowered computer fan. I seen good ones on eBay that's perfect so I'll buy one of them!  after a few hours running it don't blow oil out of the crank breather and no slobbering so the engine must be breaking in good! I took the gear cover off to replace the fuel pump plunger and barrel with new ones, and I noticed no metal Peices all clean  The original fuel plunger got recked because it seized from sitting for 14 years till I got my hands on it. I think they use a different fuel for test running and it drys out and binds the pumps parts together and scrapes the pumps internal surfaces when forcing apart. The engine was hunting so I knew the injection pump was to blamed. After replacing it with a new internals it ran great!  The original parts had a score in the barrel walls and the plunger had scuff marks from me twisting it loose  It's a nice thing the parts are cheap for these engines! The fuel injector parts are cheap but good quality ! Only cost $5 with shipping included for fuel injection parts.