Purchased a Changfa R165 watercooled diesel engine, question about flywheel play

[Jesse McB]

Hello everyone!

I won bidding on a new old stock 3HP Changfa R165 water cooled diesel engine from ebay last month! Got it for a decent price, shipping cost abit lol. I got it shipped by UPS from export Pennsylvania to my place in London ontario.  Yes i live in canada and i had no problem importing it. It has the usual spart parts, pulley and orginal changfa owners manual for the changfa R165! This engine has never been used and is in excellent shape, it was made in 2008 so it has been sitting around for 8 years. Only problem it had was the injector pump was stuck but i freed it up!
Im in the middle of removing the Chinese blue paint and painting it a nice red por-15 engine paint.

While attempting to remove the flywheel i noticed an ever so sightly amount of rotational play rocking it back and forth clockwise and counter clockwise, about 1/32" of an inch when measuered from the outside diameter of the flywheel. The flywheel is 9.5 inch across. Is this normal for the flywheel to have this slight play? Is this the cleances in the rod and piston pin bearings im feeling? The flywheel is on good and tight! And I did a test run on the little diesel and it ran just perfect! Sounds good aswell ! Starts up riteaway! Heres a video of it running at 1800 rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGe2CsB-Jz8

Please Let me know if any of your changfas have this slight rotational back and forth play in the flywheel? I cant find any information on this matter,  Is this normal or not  

Thanks for reading!

Jesse mcb

[veggie]

There should not be any rotational play between the flywheel and the crankshaft. ZERO.
Typically the flywheels have both a key and a taper fit which makes play almost impossible.
What you may be feeling by rocking the flywheel back and forth is the play in the big square cut gears connecting the crank to the cam/injector pump shaft.
These are notorious for having a backlash in the amount that you noted. This loose gear mesh also makes a clicking noise which can be felt in the flywheel when rotated.
That's my guess 

Veggie

[mobile_bob]

if the flywheel is tight and i assume it is or it would have been knocking like hell when you ran it.

the play you describe is the play in the rod brg to crank journal play.

iirc the stroke is about 3 inch or so, so half that will be about 1.5 inch
the flywheel is what?  9 inches or so in diameter or maybe 4.5 in radius?

that is about a 3:1 ratio,  so whatever the clearance is between the rod and journal, the pistion pin and piston, pin and rod small end... probably .010" or so in total... x 3= approx .030" at flywheel outer rim

which coincidentally is about the 1/32" you are reporting.

my 195 has all of that, and probably much more as the flywheel is much larger.... i don't recall how much but it is quite a bit out at the rim of the flywheel.

i don't think you have a problem, provided the flywheel is tight to the crank.

if you are concerned, you can always remove the crankcase cover and have a look inside.

my bet is you are ok.
bob g

[Jesse McB]

So today I removed the gear cover and inspected the gears, your right veggie they do have a good amount of gear lash! But its not the source of the play that im feeling, I can feel the gears teeth still dont touch when using a feeler gauge.  Like i said its such a small amount of play Im bearly moving the flywheel at all!. So i removed the crank cover to inspect the rod bearings, there is no loose bearings at all everythings nice and tight!

Bob what your saying makes sense! I came up with the exact same ratio but used a different formula lol . When I opened the crank cover to inspect while moving the flywheel, i can see the rod rocking ever so slighty side to side on the crank, but bearly. So It must be what you said bob, the rod journal and piston bearings clearances showing at large because of the flywheel  : I have an R170 diesel "a changfa clone" that has the same amount of play in its flywheel!

Also im thinking if i should replace the main crank 6307 bearings with USA made bearings? Does changfa use good enouph quality bearings that i dont have to worry about them flying apart?  I had this happened with my R170 "changfa clone" after about 400 hours! It had cheap cheap main bearings!

Thanks for your help guys!

[Jesse McB]

Bob this is for you, i got the right measurements 

Bore x stroke for R165
65mm x 60mm
Flywheel Play .03" at 9.5" OD
Stroke 60mm  -  2.36"
Flywheel OD to stroke ratio 4:1 
9.5" / 2.36" = 4:1

Flywheel play divide ratio = .0075
.03 / 4 = 0.0075

Total bearing play divide 3 = .0025 
0.0075 / 3 = 0.0025

.0025 estimated bearing clearances for all 3 bearing types

Crank journal to main rod bearing
small end to piston pin 
Piston pin to piston

Kinda funny actully lol i wounder if all engines are like that?

[mobile_bob]

something else that ends up in the clearance stack

the ring to land gap,  you might have another thousands there to add in
the rings fit the bore tight enough that you will feel a bit of clearance there too.

also depending on where in the stroke, if at or near bottom dead or top dead center, you can have a lot of
slop or feel like there is and in reality it is only the rod angularity making it feel much worse than it is.

something else to think about, just for giggles

start the engine and run it for a few seconds, shut it down and immediately feel the clearance/slop
with oil pumped up into some of the gaps, my bet is there will be a lot less apparent slop at the crankshaft.

all i can say is this, the s195 has iirc somewhere around a 20inch flywheel,and the apparent slop or clearance at first seems like a huge amount of play.... its just geometry at play.

as for the little fella, i would dearly love to have bought a pair back when they were widely available.  the smallest i have now that is water cooled is a pair of 175's.... however i have 3 of the 3hp aircooled engines tucked away. 

for a tiny house application, i am thinking one like yours could be a really cool hub to a power and heat (cogen) setup in moderate climates.  and somehow i am thinking the little fella is not nearly as loud as its bigger brothers.

bob g

[Jesse McB]

That I really haven't thought of bob! The piston rings will locked with the cylinder liner as the piston moves ever so slighty. Reason why i like mechanics and engines so much is the precision involved! Its fasinating

Hey i figure since there is not much info on these smaller Changfas diesels i will keep posting my R165 project pictures. I will be disassembling it when i have proper tools to look over every possible nick and cranny for sand, havent seen any yet  It will be used as the power source for my offgrid woods cabin in novascotia at around 1800 rpm with a Chevy one wire alternator. Im hoping to get about 500 to 600 watts counting for the alternators efficiency and running at 1800 rpm. But i will use max load time to time to clear up the carbon. Also like what you said bob i will be utilizing the exhaust and hot water for even more efficiency for heating my place! These smaller diesels can run very quiet when a really good muffler is attached. So quiet you can hold a conversation facing the exhaust on max load! I wounder what will happend if the end of the exhaust is in a big barrel of water will that bubble to much or to much back pressure? lol!

I inpected every detail of the engine and maybe a few things could be removed added on and redesigned.

1. Hopper
Remove hopper and use a small radiator, cut out a 3/8 plate, bore a hole to insert a thermostate housing with thermostate, this will serve as the water outlet port, Removed water drain spout and utilzed that for a npt barbed water inlet, this cool water return will help keep the head cool!  Im thinking about using an electric water pump and having the system Pressurized.  

2. No oil pump and oil filter  
There is no forced oil pump in the R165 and R170, only splash and centrifugal forced. It does have a barbaric worm drive oil pump on the cam shaft end to supply oil to the rockers. Its so simple its ridiculous! I wounder if it has any psi and flow rate
Im going to buy a small universal engine oil gear pump on aliexpress and rig it to a small electric motor and attach a good oil fliter. This will definitely prolong engine life! I will take advantage of the oil drain and dip stick port for the Out and in of fresh oil. I was thinking attaching the oil pump to the cam shaft end like how a R175 works but the R165 gear cover is so small theres no room! And id have to cut a slot in the end of the cam shaft and thats to much work and possibly damage.

3. Camshaft small end , no bushing bearing
The camshaft small end inserts in the gear cover in a small bore,  i noticed theres no bearing bushing that can be replaced so when it wears out down the long road then what? Well there may not be any extreme forces in this little area but for security im gonna bore it out enouph to press a brass bushing in, i checked many onlines sites and yes they are available for any size you need!

That is the few things i think would make the engine more reliable! Ill be posting more whenever i get proper tools to dissemble the engine! The main bearings are pressed in so it will take certain tools lol

[playdiesel]

Nice buy! I missed that one.  I also have an R165  and pretty much the entire  R-line except I currently dont own an R195. I am yet to find use for the R165. Thinking about belting it to an automotive alternator and using it for a portable battery charger just to keep it limbered up. For some reason, probably tight tolerance, the Chinese pumps and injectors are more susceptible to sticking when left to sit than the Listeroids are.  I have had to unstick my R170 three times.

[SteveU.]

Single R180? R185? desperation ( by the seller) bought and owned by me. The largest they made before going to internal counter balance shaft.
SAME sistuation. Very reluctant to build design around as a no-can-get-parts engine. Cute though. Electric starts fine. The o-n-l-y small deosel my wife will (would) use and operate. Listroids were intimidating to her.

Jessie McB you said a one-wire Chevy alternator.
That dog has been futile hunted for 50 years as an off-grid charger and been found wanting. Like working with one hand tied  behind your back.
Why?
ALL "one wire" alternators actually need two wires when the battery bank not-common ground mounted. So you will need a second to the battery return circuit (ground) wire of the same size as the main charge out wire. Better anyhow than relying on return current trough shake loosening bolts and seeping in pretty-paints anyhow. Truck and Marine alternators most often internally insulated requiring the use of both a positive and negative cable.

Second reason "one-wire's" are far inferior. ALL "one-wire" (actual two cable) systems have to rely on the iron in the unit retaining residual magnetism so after the engine is running spinning the charging unit this residual magnetism will help start a wee bit of charging voltage building up. Takes a bit of time/rpm before of this self-bootstraping before the unit internal regulator will turn on for full power.
Had my ass kick but good installing one-wire Delco's conversions onto old farm tractors. HAVE to rev those slow speed engines to get the alternator to turn on. Cold start, engine idling, meanwhile battery slowly  discharging for igntion-power leads to a no-start if that tractor not raised RPM, hard worked. Not a town parade use good thing at all.
GM/Delco knew this. Why on automotive applications they put in the other two wires. One wire is through the system on/off switch, battery current flowing through an indicator light with a parrelle resistor to make good and damn sure those alternator were from an engine idle turned on.
The truck/industrial/marine self-exciting only two wire units they put in an special external "flashing" nipple terminal for times the unit would not turn itself on. Mech/tech then able to unit installed force it to start.
A General Motors/Delco Remy "fix" for slow cold idling diesel school bus and industrial units where the operators were not engine rev starting up the alternators to charging was an internal or external kit that would allow at engine off a small trickle in of battery power to keep the alt system magnetized. O.K. For daily/weekly used systems. Summer shut down for school buses, and winter shut down on construction equipment and after a few months the were all drains flat dead.

Solutions?
Just like I found on the old tractor conversions.
Learn the Chevy/GM/Delco Remy small numbered #1 and #2 terminals are the one for guaranteed switched turning on and off of the alternator/regulator system. The other terminal is for voltage regulator DIRECT BACK TO THE BATTERY state of charge VOLTAGE SENSING.
Important especially for off engine mounting system charging of battery or a battery bank. Any terminal corrosion or distance under-sizing of cabling and that battery/bank will be under charged. All of the time the alternator happy with what is is seeing at it's ass end. Remotely at the battery voltage sensing the alt will put out nearly whatever it needs in voltage  to keep those batteries up to a good charge state.

In the Chevy/GM/DELCO line of alternators the reaaly good cooler running low speed capable start with the larger mid and large frame units, series numbers 15SI, 17SI (skip 27), 30SI 40 SI units.
And since using  fuel the best obviously a concern by using the R165, I would still kick efficiency-use ass by at lesat 15% just by using a later dual internal fan Dephi (former Delco) unit. Yep four wires.

Read here in the alternator section about even better LeeceNeville/Prestolite/Motorola chinese clone beefy alternator for another 15% efficiency use improvement on slow low speed engines applications. Yep. 4-5 wire to learn them.
Para-prasing the old hot-rod wisdom:
Efficiency costs . . . how much you willing to self-invest to learn?

J-I-C Steve Unruh

[Jesse McB]

Yeah the IP can get stuck over time if not being used. My R165 was sitting for 8 years before it was sold on ebay.  the IP was stuck so tight i had spray WD40 lithium grease waited 24 hours then it slowly and stiff it finally came out. Taking out the plunger It got a small scuff that i can bearly feel with my finger nail , but the engine worked perfectly with its test run, and just in case I purchased a spare barrel and plunger from aliexpress for $12 last week lol.    Its just like another ebay, they have plenty of parts for sale for these engine, hey have fuel injectors for the S195 for $20 USD shipping included! I actully purchased a R170 from aliexpress 2 years back, lol thinking of that brings bad memories hahaha!
Parts for these smaller changfa engines are more available then 2 years ago when i purchased my changfa clone R170, boy that motor blew up twice on me lol!! Main ball Bearings went fast becuase it had horrible balanced flywheel. Cheap cheap!  

Everyone here thats in need of changfa parts they have head gaskets for sale on ebay for changfa diesels, type it up and check it out,  kinda exspensive but easy to buy if you have a ebay account! They are about $20 USD the seller also has engine parts available as well for all the  changfas types. But like i said they may cost

Now about the alternator for charging batterys, im a bit sceptical on what to use to generate power as this diesel is so small. Being just 3hp it will only put out 1000 watt with alternator power at max load. alternators have low efficiency like around 55% but able to not worry about the engines speed is a trade off!   I only need about 600 watt to charge batterys and run my place so i would prefer to run the changfa at around 1800rpm to prolong life. Im sure it should put out at least 600 watts at 1800 Rpm load. I have some pictures of the engine im in middle of scraping and removing the paint so its Not the prettiest shape!! I will be painting it  Por-15 Red should look nice!

[Jesse McB]

R165

[mobile_bob]

that little fella is just plain cute!

depending on what you want to charge?  12 or 24? 
a 12volt 110-555jho can be controlled with a programmable controller/regulator to get right at 80% efficiency
doing 24volt nominal charging,, with the right controller that can be programmed for small engine use and you
have a pretty efficient setup.

it basically comes down to what the real needs are.

the little engine of course is not as efficient as its bigger brothers, however it is more efficient down at around one kwatt
than the bigger bro's   they don't come into their own until they are loaded down to much higher kwatt outputs.

that is the interesting thing about the little 3hp engine,  years ago there was an ebay seller that had the electric start version, and i wish i would have bought a truck load of them, and another truck load of parts to keep them up and running.

i think a microminitinycogenerator could be made up out of one of these little engines that would be the bee's knee's for a tiny house, small fishing cabin or other remote operation where the need for domestic hotwater and power would be small
and a good match for one of these guys.

there is never enough time in the day it seems, and i feel horrible that life has taken me away from development of this thing we do.

if the new epa guy is reasonable, it might be worth the effort to take a trip to go visit this dude.

and maybe i should get with it before he moves to DC!

hmmmm

bob g

[Jesse McB]

Bob you should of gotten that truck load! There would been many happy little changfas enjoying their lives in America  

I know that induction motors can be used as a generator, but i wonder is there alot of efficiency lost using one as a generator? So Whats the catch lol its such a easy way to have a slow rpm gen head! Is a st gen head more efficient? If so by how much? I seen a power curve chart for this engine online somewere and i remember the most torque is at 1800 rpm so that be its most efficent speed and should be about 1.5 hp lol thats a joke this thing is almost to small  

I also imagined using the diesel for a little go kart doon buggy that has a self heated cab for winter it be so cool!

I dont want the little diesel to run at full speed all the time so thats why im debating using an alternator.  
I wounder how much fuel It will burn in an hour to get 600 watt with an alternator? Im guessing around 400 ml of diesel since its max fuel consumption is .6L for full load.

[playdiesel]

There was a rather large dealer in china diesels  near me whose primary thing was supplying the Amish. He sold LOTS of them via word of mouth not the internet and thus he was/is not widely known.  When he quit due to the ban his rather substantial parts stocks went to a guy in eastern Ohio who is hoarding them for reasons and wont sell an thing. However he kept his demonstrator engines and when he got tired of looking at them he advertised them locally and I was Johnny on the spot to help him out of his predicament. My favorite of all of them is the R180.  Another favorite is the R192, ever heard of one? neither had I, it is only one I have ever seen or heard about.

[Jesse McB]

Would anyone know if the original main crank bearings would be reliable in my R165 changfa diesel? Or should i replace them with name brand bearings? I noticed they are pressed in, so ill have to buy a heavy-duty bearing puller. It was also the failure points of my previous R170 changfa "clone"