Expected life expectancy from WMO?

[BioHazard]

Here in the US, I think the cheapest diesel engines to be found would be a mid 80's GM 6.2 non turbo V-8.
Often on Craigslist for around $600.  Heck, I've got one in a '82 Suburban with a blown transmission.  Maybe it needs a new home 

That engine is about the only "car" engine I have considered...although I just don't think I want to start with a 20+ year old used engine. On the other hand, when it blows up, the core is still worth quite a bit, and one of them would bolt right into my truck.....

I've only done one experiment with gasifying WMO, I took a copper pipe about a foot long and smashed one end closed. Then I filled it about half way with oil, heated it with a torch for a minute, and then lit the gas coming off the top. It did seem to burn quite well...

[BioHazard]

Another thing about using old gas for thinner, the alcohol/water could be seperated out and just the gasoline used. I have done this before with small batches of gas for small engines - literally just add enough water to your gas until the ethanol absorbs it all, and then sinks to the bottom. Siphon off the pure gas. I bet I could get free old wet gas from people out of boats and such and use it like that.

The problem with this in gasoline engines is that you're also taking out a lot of the octane.

[BioHazard]

I believe that the lister-oid is an poor candidate for WMO the precup just runs to cold. Unless full load and max compression is continiously applied it just carbons up. Even the original lister manual called for a de carbon every 1000 hours.

Ok, so what engine would be the absolute best choice for burning WMO?

Wartsila


Thanks, Geno

Just curious, why the Wartsila exactly? What are the best options to have on a WMO burning engine? I don't know much (anything) about Wartsilas....

I wish I could simply turn my meter backwards and use the grid as a giant battery. If that was the case I'd have a 100kw+ generator that I only run for a few hours a month...

[Geno]

The way I figure, the bigger the engine, the more $$$ it can generate before it wears out.

Wartsila

Thanks, Geno

[mobile_bob]

it would seem to me that heavy bunker oil also has a high ash content?

i wonder how the very large slowspeed engines that are built to inject and burn that crap not only tolerate it
but seem to have reasonable lifespans between overhauls

are the listeroid liners induction hardened?

if they are not hardened, perhaps an engine with hard liners, stainless allow top ring with steel insert in the piston top groove
would allow burning waste motor oil and get longer mean time before overhaul?

bob g

[Geno]

Wartsila uses water injection on at least some of their engines. Would this help wash away or lessen the the impacts of ash? I tried it on my Roid. Even at a quart an hour it contaminated my cold, 110 °F oil rather quickly. I could devise a way to get the oil hotter but I don't want the extra plumbing.

Thanks, Geno

[spencer1885]

it would seem to me that heavy bunker oil also has a high ash content?

i wonder how the very large slowspeed engines that are built to inject and burn that crap not only tolerate it
but seem to have reasonable lifespans between overhauls

are the listeroid liners induction hardened?

if they are not hardened, perhaps an engine with hard liners, stainless allow top ring with steel insert in the piston top groove
would allow burning waste motor oil and get longer mean time before overhaul?

bob g

   

Please could every one who is interested in using WMO please read my posts.
My genuine  Lister has a chrome bore and that did not survive WMO.
The ash that's forming inside the cylinder is abrasive and that's going to be abrasive in any engine and unless your engine is made out of some thing harder than steel it's going to wear out very quickly.

[deeiche]

how about a hot air engine with a babington burner , the animation below was based on using wood products

the animation came from the website of a retired NASA engineer who developed it.

[spencer1885]

how about a hot air engine with a babington burner , the animation below was based on using wood products

the animation came from the website of a retired NASA engineer who developed it.

Interesting idea, it is sort of on similar lines to building a steam boiler fired with WMO.
Burning a free but crappy fuel with out the crap getting in to an engine is looking like the best way of going about it.
A steam turbine or steam engine driving an alternator would make an excellent CHP system.

[vdubnut62]

I have to admit that is an interesting idea.  I also have to admit that it is way above my skill level, pay grade, and ability. Also patience.
It seems to me that removing the ash producing component from the WMO sounds like the simplest way to deal with the problem, however,
that may be as difficult or impossible as cracking the stuff to start with.
I guess an Epic Google Search is ahead

Ron

[dieselgman]

Lister used a hard chrome liner in their originals - they called the process "Listard". As I understand it, the chrome would wear off after a time and had to be re-processed to renew the cylinder. Special softer iron rings were used with this style cylinder. The regular plain iron cylinders are just sacrifice parts that are either bored or tossed once worn beyond tolerances. They were not hardened nor specially heat treated as far as I can discern. We can specify the chrome bore in our current parts available for the 6/1 and 8/1. To my knowledge, this is the only way to get a hardened bore for these engine types.

dieselgman
Diesel Electric

[rl71459]

I have some experiance with "Hard Chrome" and I can tell you it is not all it is cracked up to be. I work around industrial machinery almost every day. And often we find ourselves repairing wornout components.

Their are times when we must repair a worn shaft or bore that had to have the size maintained. when it was going to be "Chromed" we would first grind the worn area to allow the chrome plating to be uniform in thickness. Then the part is sent to "Chrome" with a "Chrome To Finish" specification. This allowed the chrome facility to apply enough material to allow it to be reground back to original spec's. When the part came back the machinist's set it back up in the grinder (I.D. or O.D.) Indicate the previously created reference bands to insure proper concentricity... then regrind back to spec.

During the process the Machinist will first notice how easy the chromed area grinds compared to the original material. It does make his job easier so long as he does not have to blend it to a nonchromed surface. When we place these parts back in use they have a much shorter life span than the original material. (Wears Very Fast compared to Hardened steel)

A method used when "Chrome" is not good enough is to Sleeve the part with a "Hardened Tool Steel Sleeve" then perform the regrinding. This allows you to use a very high quality steel and usually have a much longer usable life span. Could we make "Tool Steel Sleeves" for our engines? I am certain it could be done. But probably not practical... And if we did this we would need to use a different ring type... and even then you still have a soft piston to deal with.

Rob

[listeroil]

Spencer

I did not realise that when you were talking about thinning WMO with RUG that the RUG you use is free. I made the assumption that you were paying for the RUG and hence my statement about putting twice the amount of kerosene in compared to RUG only makes sense if you are paying for the thinning agent. And live in the UK where kerosene is virtually tax free and half the price of RUG.

Thank you for doing the research on WMO I have been offered it for free but thanks to your advise I wont be going anywhere near it now. Unless the cracking can be sorted out.

Mick

[spencer1885]

Spencer

I did not realise that when you were talking about thinning WMO with RUG that the RUG you use is free. I made the assumption that you were paying for the RUG and hence my statement about putting twice the amount of kerosene in compared to RUG only makes sense if you are paying for the thinning agent. And live in the UK where kerosene is virtually tax free and half the price of RUG.

Thank you for doing the research on WMO I have been offered it for free but thanks to your advise I wont be going anywhere near it now. Unless the cracking can be sorted out.

Mick

Hi Mick,
I also live in the UK and if I can be of any help with your Lister related projects just let me know.
Have you considered using your supply of free WMO for heating instead.
Cheers
Spencer

[BioHazard]

   

Please could every one who is interested in using WMO please read my posts.
My genuine  Lister has a chrome bore and that did not survive WMO.
The ash that's forming inside the cylinder is abrasive and that's going to be abrasive in any engine and unless your engine is made out of some thing harder than steel it's going to wear out very quickly.

Your posts have been read. I'm not stupid, of course WMO will make any engine wear out quicker than diesel fuel. On the other hand cylinder liners and piston rings aren't very expensive. I consider them disposeable. If WMO caused wear to the crankcase or the crankshaft the issue might be a little more severe.

You make it sound as if no engine has ever run on WMO or other bad, thick, dirty fuels like #6 bunker oil. The fact is, it happens all the time on ocean going ships, and they last thousands, and thousands, and thousands of hours.

In addition to that I am aware of quite a few people who have run their pickup trucks and listeroids and changfoids on WMO. They all report increased wear, and zero fuel bills, and few report their engine just explodes. Just imagine what kind of shit fuel they feed these engines in 3rd world countries like Inidia and China. I can guarantee you they aren't running clean #2 pump diesel at some village in the mountains of India....