thinking of exploring another option

[TimSR2]

To Biohazard:

90's propane and NG vehicle  conversions always used a black box that reinterpreted the ECM signals, (they were costly at the time, 3 to 400$)  to recurve the distributor and input signals . Although the fuel injector would be out of service, the Map sensor and TPS , O2 sensor would still do their job. To increase the idle speed to 1800 we should just have to hack the software, and increase the length of the lever that the solenoid operates.  OBD feedback loops will take care of everything else.

However, I think that we can easily get the power we need at 1200, on belt drive, which should make a very nice CHP, and this should be possible without physical mods to the idle solenoid. A 2.4 liter Iron Duke should be good for 10 kw at 1200 rpm on Methane fuel if it has all 4 pistons firing.

A Marijuana grow house burned down a quarter mile from my inlaws a few years ago. It had previously belonged to friends of the family and apparently ended up being a Hells Angel grow house.   They had quietly installed 2 matching  300 cubic inch Fords on  illegal Natural gas tap intercepts driving 30 kw heads in the 2 car garage. They ran all their grow op lights on the gensets, leaving all the power for the house on the grid,so the electric company had no indication of anything wrong. They grew Millions of dollars of Pot on stolen Natural Gas, for 8 years, in a wealthy neighborhood, and the neighbors didn't hear a thing.

This on a half acre lot, with neighbors 200 feet away. It ran 8 years before a failed fuel line burned the house down. My inlaws live a quarter mile away, line of sight from this house,  and never suspected anything, never heard a sound.  It was never in the news, I only know because I have friends who are firemen.  
T

[BioHazard]

One thing I've read about, though not understood much of, are "lean burn" natural gas engines. What if one left the throttle wide open and changed the gas ratio based on engine load - like a diesel? Seems like it could work in theory but probably not very easy to control...

[Tom T]

Could a tractor engine be used for this application the ones I am thanking of are about 154 cid and have a governor and there were a lot of them used on lpg and other fuels this would give the bell housing and maybe a gear box for drives. Tom T

[BioHazard]

One thing about the 2.5L Chevy engine is that it was used in marine applications...might be easier to find some water cooled exhaust parts.

Just heard on the news, electricity is going up as natural gas goes down....

[vdubnut62]

 Tom, LP tractors used a special rare high compression head that the Antique pullers will walk through fire for and some of the old controls are obsolete, plus nearly all are high dollar collectors items.....
Sorry to pop your bubble.
Ron.

[Tom T]

Sorry but you did not pop my bubble was just a thought that's all ! Tom T

[TimSR2]

Tom T: wow I did not know that. A Mechanical governor Iron Duke would be awesome. So much simpler!   You would probably have to put stellite seats in the head but it is not very expensive to do that. Disable or replace the exhaust valve rotators if your engine has them. You don't want valve rotation on a Gaseous fuel engine.  

On my motorhome I  shaved the heads, removed the rotators and put in  a skinny .019 headgasket.... boosted the comp from 7.8 to 9.5 to 1. That is as high as you want to go in a 'severe service' engine. The machine shop guys calculator did the math for me. The power  from the compression increase is just unbelievable. And the fuel consumption dropped too.  On a lightly loaded engine you can push it up to 11 to 1 on NG or LP.  And gaspots love to work lightly loaded, unlike diesels.   The stoichometric ratio increases as the compression ratio increases, so a large displacement, high compression engine  can be run leaner, and will be more efficient.    Iron duke 2.5 chevy has the typical studded rocker setup so the valve geometry will not suffer.


There is no need for a gearbox. Just a double 3/8 inch automotive vee belt drive off the front, or a serpentine belt system off a late 80's  Chevy s10 will do.

But I'll bet if we do some research we will find commercial gensets built on this block that are available as obsolete surplus,  so we may only need to buy one of these and add a heatex (marine manifold) to have a decent CHP system.  We may be reinventing  the wheel here.


Biohazard : that is  a very relevant observation that I should have well known, as a boater...  There are Water cooled exhaust manifolds freely available for this engine, since the 1960's.....    And they have great circulation pumps as factory equipment. Just design the heat harvest system to cool the engine first, then the exhaust heatex, , through the heat absortion load system... back to the block

I love this thread.  It reminds me of Junkyard Wars on TV, in the 90's

[vdubnut62]

That old Iron Duke sounds like a winner. From 75 up will probably already have stellite valve seats due to unleaded fuel compliance.
Or... I have an old Hercules flathead four banger power unit. Anybody up for trying to modify an ancient artifact?
It's complete with magneto ignition and a crank to start it with.   I don't know how one would ever get the compression ratio up high enough,
it's probably all of 6 1/2 to 1.
Ron

[BioHazard]

Here's a good list of things the 2.5L was used in for craigslist searching:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Iron_Duke_engine

I notice a lot of old buick century's with the iron duke on the local craigslist in the $600 neighborhood. One of those with air conditioning could really yeild a lot of fun parts to play with. You guys are are really winning me over on the Iron Duke.

[rl71459]

I can vouch(sp) for the durability of the "Iron Duke"  It is one tough sonofabitch. Ive seen them overheated multiple times and still run out a normal life.

Rob

[SteveU.]

Yep guys this is what all of us woodgasing fellows are up to alright.
Self fueling big/er spark ignition engines at a nice quiet slow speed. You can see pictures and comments about some of our current activity on the Main page here without joining:
http://victorygasworks.ning.com/
My hands holding a turbo up to a Ford 240 I-6 in a 20kVA Onan genset. I personally DO think it would be better to compression increase it. See AlexeyA's gasifier on thier 30kVA container CHP unit. See my small spark and deisel engines, AC gen head and Elecrtodyne truck alternators, ect. It is these small units are the hard to woodgasifiy, the big stuff is Much easier

The GM iron Duke is great esicially the pickup version.
Also the earlier single spark plug Ford 2000 and 2300 SOHC engines and the Chrysler 2.3 and 2.5 SOHC engines too.

Yeah local growers been trying to recruit my work already.

Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh

[TimSR2]

On the durabiilty of the Iron Duke:

I bought a new GMC S15 in 1987,   4 speed,  no overdrive, and 4.10 rear. She was a total screamer on the highway.  I sold her after 4 years, she apparently changed hands many times, and was very sorely abused by the later owners. I met her owner about 5 years ago, by chance. He had just put  in a junkyard mill to keep her going for a while. The original engine failed at 376,000 km, was reportedly doing fine until a rad hose failure caused a fatal overheat.

Those engines are very tough.     

[BioHazard]

Was the iron duke used for industrial purposes? There may very well already be generators based on them that we could...well...copy.  It works for the chinese....

[billswan]

Was the iron duke used for industrial purposes? There may very well already be generators based on them that we could...well...copy.  It works for the chinese....

Well I remember working on an lp engine in a fork lift that was a 4 cylinder older form chevy. I would think as the years went by the and the iron duke came to be it also would have found it's way into forklifts. Any forklift mechanics here??

[TimSR2]

I just checked the specs. 4 inch bore, same as a 350 or 302 chevy. I havent time to check if the piston pin height is the same yet but it sure would be easy to find high compression pistons if...   And the way GM 'parts box engineered' stuff I think it's likely that we can fit 350 pistons  12 1/2 to one, anybody?