Micro CoGen.

Prime movers, diesel and gas engines => Listeroid/Petteroid/Clones => Topic started by: veggie on August 05, 2011, 09:51:12 PM

Title: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: veggie on August 05, 2011, 09:51:12 PM
The builder of this Listeroid plant claims the unit can run 24/7 for a full year on one tank of fuel.
He even repeats the claim to make sure it is heard. (near the end of the video)
The unit has a 240 volt, 30 amp connector which equates to 6600 watts or 6.6 kw.
So the engine must be at least a 12/1 Listeroid to make that much power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySvJtqEmp5w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySvJtqEmp5w&feature=related)

Assuming the 12/1 engine uses 2 litres per hr. (twice that of a 6/1) and there's 8760 hrs in a year,
the fuel tank must be 2 Ltrs X 8760 hrs = 17,520 litres or (3937 Gallons) to allow 24/7 operation for the full year. !!  :o

If the engine is a 6/1 the fuel tank would have to be 1968 gallons. (But then the advertised 6.6kw would not be possible)
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Horsepoor on August 05, 2011, 10:31:09 PM
Reminds me of the commerical "This is your brain on drugs". No creditability!
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: LowGear on August 06, 2011, 03:14:12 AM
Nice boxes.

Let me do the math.  1 gallon a day for 365 days is 365 gallons. 

Right.

I don't get it.  Do you?

Casey
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 06, 2011, 05:16:41 AM
I posted a reply to his video.  I made the assumption that even at part load it had to consume at least 1 quart an hour.

Carl
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: injin man on August 06, 2011, 07:06:45 AM
Very interesting, but not gonna happen. 24/7 365 without
a rebuild on listeroid?
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: cgwymp on August 06, 2011, 07:18:45 AM
Quote from: veggie on August 05, 2011, 09:51:12 PM
Assuming the 12/1 engine uses 2 litres per hr. (twice that of a 6/1) and there's 8760 hrs in a year,
the fuel tank must be 2 Ltrs X 8760 hrs = 17,520 litres or (3937 Gallons) to allow 24/7 operation for the full year. !!  :o

If the engine is a 6/1 the fuel tank would have to be 1968 gallons.

He ported the head (see his other video) -- surely that makes all the difference! ;-)

Wonder how hard it is to get into that enclosure every day to lube the valve train?
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Henry W on August 06, 2011, 07:53:54 AM
Oh boy, I think we can have fun on this one.

Web: http://www.wcaeaps.com/
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 06, 2011, 08:56:12 AM
Quote from: cgwymp on August 06, 2011, 07:18:45 AM
Quote from: veggie on August 05, 2011, 09:51:12 PM
Assuming the 12/1 engine uses 2 litres per hr. (twice that of a 6/1) and there's 8760 hrs in a year,
the fuel tank must be 2 Ltrs X 8760 hrs = 17,520 litres or (3937 Gallons) to allow 24/7 operation for the full year. !!  :o

If the engine is a 6/1 the fuel tank would have to be 1968 gallons.


He ported the head (see his other video) -- surely that makes all the difference! ;-)

Wonder how hard it is to get into that enclosure every day to lube the valve train?

Yes, I am sure the ported head will yield a substantial horsepower gain between 3,000 and 7,500 rpm  :D.  Maybe he wants to replace the cam with a high lift long duration solid roller style camshaft as well to take advantage of the ported head.
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Henry W on August 06, 2011, 09:46:57 AM
Here is a topic from the past.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=1578.msg18969#msg18969
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: rcavictim on August 07, 2011, 12:21:22 AM
Sure it will run for a whole year off the same tank of fuel.  Just so long as you keep adding fuel to the tank whenever it gets low.   ::)
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 07, 2011, 05:03:50 AM
 As noted above i posted a comment on the youtube page and asked how it could possibly run on one tank of fuel for an entire year 24 hours a day for a year and this was his reply.

WCAEAPS
   
Re: Comment on your video: WCAEAPS Power System
The information that you are requesting will require you to sign a contract with WCAEAPS. We do offer one on one hands on training courses for anyone willing to learn and is charged by the hour plus materials.


I was drinking a cup of coffee at the time and when i read this i accidentally spit coffee all over my computer monitor when i started laughing. 
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: cgwymp on August 07, 2011, 06:53:48 AM
Wait a minute -- you have to sign an NDA just to learn the fuel consumption specs? Maybe he's got some other really profitable business, so he's running this one at 100% loss for taxes, 'cause there's no way he's ever gonna sell one of these units! ;-)
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 07, 2011, 08:24:56 AM
I suspect that he is just using the veggie/diesel fuel as a pilot ignition for either natural gas or propane fogging  or he has found the holy grail of  engine efficiency. 
Just imagine if you put one of these in the back of your electric pickup truck, you drive it for a year on one tank of fuel :D
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: quinnf on August 09, 2011, 09:13:46 AM
I noticed Willem disabled the comments.  I suppose he didn't want to know how many ways there are to say he's full of it. 
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Henry W on August 09, 2011, 11:12:30 AM
Here is his comment why the comments section has been disabled:  ::)

Sorry I had to disable comments on this system, I am being attacked by people that work for the oil companies and will not allow this technology to move forward. Time to return to STALTH MODE!
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 09, 2011, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: hwew on August 09, 2011, 11:12:30 AM
Here is his comment why the comments section has been disabled. ::)

Sorry I had to disable comments on this system, I am being attacked by people that work for the oil companies and will not allow this technology to move forward. Time to return to STALTH MODE!



I'm calling bulls**t on his excuse.  He just doesn't want to have to reply to comments by people who know he is full of S**t.
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Tom Reed on August 09, 2011, 01:47:39 PM
Gee Carl, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: cgwymp on August 09, 2011, 05:23:53 PM
Quote from: hwew on August 09, 2011, 11:12:30 AM
Here is his comment why the comments section has been disabled:  ::)

Sorry I had to disable comments on this system, I am being attacked by people that work for the oil companies and will not allow this technology to move forward. Time to return to STALTH MODE!

Well, as long as it's just STALTH MODE and not stealth mode....
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: BioHazard on August 09, 2011, 05:27:28 PM
I wonder if there's actually a listeroid in any of those boxes... ::)
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: cgwymp on August 09, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
I notice he also says this (not sure if this was there before):
QuoteThis is our most popular Lister or Listeroid style generator system that will run 24/7 on veggie oil. The veggie oil is heated via the engines cooling system without the use of a water pump. 100% self contained and can be connected directly into your generator transfer switch. Fuel consumption varies and is directly related to what type of fuel the system is set-up for. This system can run 24/7 for a year on 1 tank of fuel with our custom gaseous system. It is a battle between good and evil so stand up and fight for what's right or you can keep paying higher $$$$ at the fuel pumps. Don't let the evil people scare you away. You have rights so use them.

(emphasis mine)

So it sounds like Carib nailed it -- it'll run on one tank of fuel all year as long as that tank isn't your primary fuel. That's certainly not misleading.... ;-)
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: BioHazard on August 09, 2011, 05:53:58 PM
How convenient he left out the part about needing a gas line and associated gas bill.  ::)
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 09, 2011, 06:41:11 PM
Quote from: cgwymp on August 09, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
I notice he also says this (not sure if this was there before):
QuoteThis is our most popular Lister or Listeroid style generator system that will run 24/7 on veggie oil. The veggie oil is heated via the engines cooling system without the use of a water pump. 100% self contained and can be connected directly into your generator transfer switch. Fuel consumption varies and is directly related to what type of fuel the system is set-up for. This system can run 24/7 for a year on 1 tank of fuel with our custom gaseous system. It is a battle between good and evil so stand up and fight for what's right or you can keep paying higher $$$$ at the fuel pumps. Don't let the evil people scare you away. You have rights so use them.

(emphasis mine)



So it sounds like Carib nailed it -- it'll run on one tank of fuel all year as long as that tank isn't your primary fuel. That's certainly not misleading.... ;-)


He must have read my post here as I suspect he has read all of the associated posts on this board and others.  He did not mention about the "custom gaseous system" in the original video, and when I called him out on the one tank per year statement, he sent me an reply saying I had to sign a contract with him to find out his secret and then he promptly disabled comments.

This is no big secret I have been running my listeroid on diesel ignition and natural gas fogging for over two years now.  He probably even saw my youtube video where I show my listeroid running on diesel ignition and natural gas at an 15% diesel 85% natural gas mix.
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: LowGear on August 09, 2011, 06:52:37 PM
As I read the comments just above me I'm starting to see his need to gear down for stalth mode.  It's not always easy being at the cutting edge of technology.

Casey
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: BioHazard on August 09, 2011, 08:32:16 PM
Even at a 15% diesel ratio I'd have a hard time believing one month per tank...let alone a year.....
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Henry W on August 09, 2011, 08:43:41 PM
It would be a minimum of 295 gallons of fuel a year running 15% diesel and 85% natural gas.

Henry
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 10, 2011, 04:32:48 AM
The best i can run my engine at 75% load is about 12% diesel but that would be the bare minimum for me. However I did not port and polish the head nor install a special purpose cam shaft on my slow speed engine ;D
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: LowGear on August 10, 2011, 11:22:49 AM
So educate me some more please.  What are you talking about - 12% diesel?

Casey
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 10, 2011, 12:51:26 PM
Quote from: LowGear on August 10, 2011, 11:22:49 AM
So educate me some more please.  What are you talking about - 12% diesel?

Casey

I have my engine setup to run duel fuel.  I use diesel as the pilot ignition and the rest is natural gas. I run my natural gas at a fixed setting via a needle valve and the governor will adjust the diesel as needed. I have it setup to run  with a minimum of diesel at about 1500 watts which is about all i need most of the time.  If more load is put on the engine the governor just injects more diesel to make up the difference.
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: LowGear on August 10, 2011, 04:36:55 PM
Wow!  A new wrinkle.  My guess is that LP would work pretty much the same.  About $5 a gallon here in Paradise.  I wonder what Natural Gas goes for on the mainland.

You think Boone has heard of this?  Sounds like a pretty cheap retro fit to me.

Thanks,

Casey
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: Carlb on August 10, 2011, 04:43:10 PM
Casey

I think our Natural gas is about 1.25 per Therm if i recall correctly.  Here is a link to my listeroid running on natural gas with diesel pilot ignition. Yes lp would be very close in performance to natural gas i suspect but I have not tried LP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwPPui8Fyi0
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: BioHazard on August 10, 2011, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: LowGear on August 10, 2011, 04:36:55 PM
Wow!  A new wrinkle.  My guess is that LP would work pretty much the same.  About $5 a gallon here in Paradise.  I wonder what Natural Gas goes for on the mainland.

Yep, propane will work the same. Right now propane is about $2.79/gallon and nat gas is about $1.20/100,000 BTU here in OR. Road diesel is still hovering around $4.00...

Still waiting to get the natural gas service setup at my new shop, I'm hoping for something under $1/therm on the commercial rate.
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: piperpilot3tk on August 16, 2011, 05:16:09 PM
He has a twin cylinder unit too....check out youtube.  What a fruit loop  :D
Title: Re: Enclosed Listeroid Package
Post by: cgwymp on August 16, 2011, 07:27:50 PM
Quote from: piperpilot3tk on August 16, 2011, 05:16:09 PM
He has a twin cylinder unit too....check out youtube.  What a fruit loop  :D

So it must run TWO years on a single tank, yes? ;-)
Title: a question about fumigation
Post by: rcavictim on August 17, 2011, 12:10:09 AM
I've tried propane fumigation on several of my diesel generators and it really makes an improvement in the smoothness, power output and cleanup of exhaust but if I go more than 20-30% contribution (I'm guessing) of total fuel in LP the engine knocks horribly like it will soon come apart.  How are you guys injecting 75% gaseous fuel?