Blended WVO

[veggie]

I've been putting lots of hours on the 900 rpm Changfa lately.
I'm doing some long term testing of the Voltmaster generator heads.
The fuel for these tests is a WVO blend.

60% WVO
40% Diesel
10 ml Cetane booster

Initially I placed a 1 liter bottle of the mix into a refrigerator overnight and no separation could be seen.
I left the bottle for a week on my bench to see if time would separate the components but no separation was evident.

The engine starts fine. It does smoke a bit for the first 30 seconds, but then clears up and runs very well.
The coldest temperature that I have had to start the engine is 10C (50f). The engine does not have a glow plug.

After some significant hours, it will be interesting to remove the head and check the deposits.

I will update as new info comes along.

If anyone else is running on a WVO blend, please tell us about your setup (and your recipe).

veggie

[Crumpite]

Veggie,

I'm quite interested in blends for my 6/1.

I'm interested in your reasoning for using a centane booster.
What are you using and why ?

I was under the impression that WVO blends had a higher centane rating than Diesel alone...
Daryl

[JohnF]

I don't mix mine at all.  My 6/1's and 10/1 all run on 100% veggie oil, no smoke and no apparent loss of power.  The only problems I have are having to de-coke/clean injector tip a bit more ofter (500-1000 hours) and some stickiness around the I.P. - but that's likely the fact that veggie seems to seep out of fuel lines very efficiently.  I used to add 3 oz acetone to 10gals of veggie but don't any more, it doesn't seem to make much difference.  As long as the veggie is hot when it hits the I.P. there are no problems.  I do start and stop on diesel (or bio if I have any around) just to make the next day's starting easier.  My engines never get "cold", there is a common water flow between them so the working engine keeps the others at around 90F.  In summer I drop back to batteries at night so the engines do get a but cooler, no problem starting. 

[veggie]

Veggie,

I'm quite interested in blends for my 6/1.

I'm interested in your reasoning for using a centane booster.
What are you using and why ?

I was under the impression that WVO blends had a higher centane rating than Diesel alone...
Daryl

The cetane booster is mainly used as a combustion catalyst.
Complete combustion is very important with WVO for the prevention of deposits.
I think impurities in WVO (depending on the source, acidity, fats etc...) can act as a combustion inhibitor.

Some of my blending mixes also used Reg. Unleaded Gasoline. The gasoline is a great diluent, but it lowers the cetane rating of the overall mix. I use a cetane booster to raise the rating.

The product I use is called "Cetane Booster" from Lubecorp Inc. It contains a combustion catalyst.
http://www.lubecorp.com/products/diesel_cetane_booster.html

veggie

[LowGear]

Dear Veggie,

Your blend looks great to me.  Unfortunately, Zorro - my dog, knows almost as much about vegetable oil in diesels as I do.  In a previous thread that was mostly you educating us, sincere thanks, you mentioned that bio-diesel already had centanes sufficient to not need additives.  My plan at this time is to run about 50:50.  WVO : bio-diesel.  I've been toying with the idea of a splash of Regular Unleaded Gasoline, RUG, as I've read many pure diesel operators do a 30:1 on their equipment.

What do you think?  Centane additives?  What is 10 ml in tablespoons (I wish they had a blushing smiley face)  OK!  I googled it and 1 ml = 0.0676280454 US tablespoons.  So 10 would be a fat half tablespoon but to how many gallons of blend?

Is there anyone out there stretching their bio-diesel supply with the easier cheaper finely filtered WVO?

Casey

[veggie]

Casey,

I have not heard of anyone diluting biodiesel with WVO. Typically dino-D is dilluted with biodiesel.
The whole idea behind biodiesel transesterification is to create a replacement for dino-diesel that does not have to be diluted in order to reduce the viscosity.
Typically, biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than dino diesel and does not (an should not) be mixed with anything other than regular diesel.

Blending WVO (which is not considered to be biodiesel) is done in an effort to reduce the viscosity of the veggie oil in order to allow the fuel to be injected properly. In effect, trying to emulate the viscosity of bio and dino diesel.

I have read that one should not add WVO to biodiesel. If you do, you would have to be very confident of your biodiesel purity. Any lingering reactants left over from the process (due to poor washing/drying) could kick off a small scale reaction it the WVO creating gel globules.

If you do attempt it, please report back. There is very little info on mixing WVO with biodiesel.
It begs the question,.. why make biodiesel if you have finely filtered WVO and the ability to blend it with RUG" and you live in a place where the average annual temp is 70f?

cheers,
veggie

[LowGear]

Hey Veggie,

It begs the question,.. why make biodiesel if you have finely filtered WVO and the ability to blend it with RUG" and you live in a place where the average annual temp is 70f?

Is that what we refer to as a relevant question?  As my education evolves down the road I ask myself that more and more.  Now I'm so committed to bio-diesel plant & equipment that I can't tell folks  I've changed my mind.  The theoretical logic is that both my truck and tractor are small and are working at the edge of not quite being big enough to do what I ask of them and that bio-diesel delivers about 15% more power.  And like the man kinda said "I can't handle the truth".  Be gentle Veggie.

Casey

PS.  In January it gets way down into the mid 60s F.

[cognos]

In the lab, bio-diesel is always more energy-dense than commercial diesel. The amount varies with the source oil.

Vegetable oil is similar - it depends on the source, but in general, is more energy-dense than diesel. But comparable to bio-diesel, again, depending on the source oil.

Of course, being more energy dense does not necessarily mean that will translate into "more power" for the end user - that depends more on the engine setup.

[veggie]

Casey,

Actually, the Biodiesel route makes a lot of sense if you will also be using your fuel in a vehicle.
I too have built a biodiesel reactor.
At this point in time, I would not use WVO blends in my vehicle. I am not confident enough to try it.
Rebuilding the top end of a Listeroid is much different than playing with a 7.3 powerstroke diesel  

I am not suggesting that you stop making biodiesel. In my opinion, it is the purest form of alternative liquid fuel that we can burn in our stationary engines. Long term testing has shown that deposit buildup in the head and injectors is comparable to regular diesel. Your engines will thank you for it.

keep us posted as your system evolves,
veggie

[oiler]

A few days ago i asked en engineer here at the our combustionlab if they had any experience in blended fuels in their oil burner components.
His answer was quite interesting. At 100% heating oil no problems. At 100% vegoil few problems mostly soot in the boiler, but the componets where doing fine.
BUT at B20 (80% mineral oil 20% vegoil) They had a lot of truble with the preheater gooing up inside.
They are working way to solve it, but progress is very slow, so he said.

[T-Man]

Hi,

I live in South Jersey and have been burning WVO for over three years in my Ford 1999 F350 7.3L DI Diesel.

After talking with an engineer out in California, I got the idea of blending 25% diesel with 75% WVO duing the winter months. Works fine, but you still need to start up and shut down with diesel. During the warmer months from late April to October I run straight WVO (no blend).

I have found that the secret to the whole WVO thing is purity. You must always know that your fuel is purfectly clean. I do that with, that's right, a $500 buck Stainless steel filter assembly. It is worth every buck!

Since going to that, I have never had any problems burning my local pizza shop's oil. By the way, I pay zip for the oil. He's happy to help me and it costs him nothing in recycling fees!

[veggie]

T-Man,

Thanks for sharing that.
Have you tried any blends without adding heat ?
Eg: 80% WVO and 20% Gasoline (or diesel) ?

veggie

[Tom Reed]

I can confirm that WVO/Dino diesel will make goo. The rack on my 6/1 was severely gummed up by this combo. Fortunately MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) cuts it real well.

[veggie]

I can confirm that WVO/Dino diesel will make goo. The rack on my 6/1 was severely gummed up by this combo. Fortunately MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) cuts it real well.

Interesting. I have had a test blend of 70% WVO, 30% Diesel, and 0.5 oz. of Turpentine in a glass container under observation for 10 months.
No separation
No goo
No slime coating

One possibility is a variance in the level of fatty acids present in the WVO.
That's why it's so hard to cast general rules about blending. The base stock composition is so variable.

veggie

[bschwartz]

Tom, I also have the gooey rack, but I don't think it is the combination of WVO and diesel causing the problems.  I think it is just the WVO finding ways to leak out of the IP, and since it is warm, after mixing with the O2 in the air, you get goo.  I have the same stuff that accumulates on the top rim of my heated 55 gal filtering drum.