Hydro choices, location and turbine type

[Jedon]

Bob B, Wow your creek is raging! I actually have one like that on a corner of my property but it's 2200ft from the house so I decided to start the hydro projects closer and easier even though it means less power, I'll expand later. I can increase my head by running more pipe, the only issue is that I need to go under a gravel road that has an easement through our property that is jointly maintained by Tahoe National Forest and logging companies. There is a culvert but it's not mine so I guess I would need to trench the road myself to get the pipe across. I could get a couple hundred feet of head that way if I ran probably another 500' of pipe. Maybe next year.

Seems like 3 1/2" nozzles open and full field strength might be the way to go, I'll try that tonight, thank you so much for all your help!!

[mbryner]

I need to go under a gravel road that has an easement through our property that is jointly maintained by Tahoe National Forest and logging companies. There is a culvert but it's not mine so I guess I would need to trench the road myself to get the pipe across

That's deja vu!   There's a creek like that through the middle of my land w/ a paved BLM easement road right next to it.   I could put the wire conduit through one of the culverts, except that I don't have any water rights, and the BLM/Forest Service guys drive by every so often looking for pot growers.  A bootlegged hydro system would be spotted quickly.  That's why I'm eyeing one of the little seasonal tributary creeks.  

P.S.  You mean 3 x 1/2" nozzles, not 3.5" nozzles, correct?   3.5" nozzles would blow you away!  Just semantics...

[sailawayrb]

Bob B, Wow your creek is raging! I actually have one like that on a corner of my property but it's 2200ft from the house so I decided to start the hydro projects closer and easier even though it means less power, I'll expand later. I can increase my head by running more pipe, the only issue is that I need to go under a gravel road that has an easement through our property that is jointly maintained by Tahoe National Forest and logging companies. There is a culvert but it's not mine so I guess I would need to trench the road myself to get the pipe across. I could get a couple hundred feet of head that way if I ran probably another 500' of pipe. Maybe next year.

Seems like 3 1/2" nozzles open and full field strength might be the way to go, I'll try that tonight, thank you so much for all your help!!

You are most welcome Jedon.  Keep measuring and tweaking, and I'm certain you will get it sorted out to your satisfaction.

My creek is 37 feet from the corner of existing and future house.  So high flow and low head is clearly the best approach for me. I have settled on about 20 feet of 12" pipe feeding a DIY Banki cross-flow turbine and DIY PMA (as previously described).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-flow_turbine

Here's a commercial cross-flow turbine:

http://www.ossberger.de/cms/en/hydro/the-ossberger-turbine-for-asynchronous-and-synchronous-water-plants/

The plan is to rig up a mechanically governed guillotine valve at inlet to modulate flow rate into the turbine as required given the actual creek flow conditions and power requirements.

Bob B.

[Jedon]

I was thinking a banki would be good for my other hydro source but I couldn't find anything commercially available at a reasonable price.

[sailawayrb]

I was thinking a banki would be good for my other hydro source but I couldn't find anything commercially available at a reasonable price.

Agreed, a Banki is most certainly a DIY design/construction project  

This will give you an idea of what's involved:

http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/vita/bankitur/en/bankitur.htm

Bob B.

[Jedon]

This look like a good place for a banki or would a pelton still be a good idea?

[sailawayrb]

This look like a good place for a banki or would a pelton still be a good idea?

I know a picture is worth a thousand words, but to make right determination, we need hard data...  We would need to know gross head and design flow rate  

Once you know that, you can look at head/flow rate chart in Osseberger site and see what turbine is best.

Bob B.

[mike90045]

If I'm going to siphon off my pond, for wintertime hydro, I need to conserve water on sunny days, and I wonder if anyone has suggestions for a remote control (electric ?) 4" water valve.  Grainger has a butterfly 4" at only $1,100 with no control ckt.   Thats going to cost too much.  Any suggestions for something suitable ?

[sailawayrb]

If I'm going to siphon off my pond, for wintertime hydro, I need to conserve water on sunny days, and I wonder if anyone has suggestions for a remote control (electric ?) 4" water valve.  Grainger has a butterfly 4" at only $1,100 with no control ckt.   Thats going to cost too much.  Any suggestions for something suitable ?

Here's a DIY cheap controller 

http://www.hackersbench.com/Projects/3bucktimer/

[mike90045]

 misspoke - I mean the water controller,  need a 4" valve to gracefully shut off flow when the batteries are full, to conserve my pond for the next rainy day.  And some way to not break the valve while it's operating.

[mbryner]

mike,  do you have to siphon? 

I know this doesn't solve the problem of cutting off the pipe flow when the sun come out but here's a poor man's method of not draining the pond:

Why not set the pipe intake at a level below the spillway but so that you won't drain the pond.   Make a T to make a siphon pipe continue down further if you want to make hydro longer than the normal intake allows.   Put ball valves in both the both legs.   Open just the upper pipe if you are going to be away but want the hydro to stop at a certain water level.   Close the upper pipe and open the siphon pipe when you need power but don't care that the pond will get low.

Or make the intake pipe in the pond adjustable in height w/ flexible 2" hose, like radiator hose.   Set it at the desired "drain to" level and let 'er rip.   It's only the top few feet  so it wouldn't be under pressure.   Add a filter/screen at the end of the flex hose.   In a pond you get good settling, so you probably wouldn't have to have a complicated filter setup.

Just thinking while typing so I don't know if any of that fits the bill.

Marcus

[mike90045]

Yep, siphon is the way I'd want to go, the pipe is at the spillway, but, I'd rather intake water from 3' down (no floating leaves there) and in winter, gives me a lot more water to use n rainy days, than if I was at spillway only.  (the pond, just under 2 acre feet) fills quickly, and if I just use the top 5", isn't much room to play with, maybe 1 day of power. Dipping down a couple feet, will give me several days, and then more rain will refill.   But, to keep from wasting the water, I'd rather throttle the water (with a $1,100 valve ?) than divert the power to a floodlight bulb ($5). 

I'll also think of the T and manual valves, but I'd have to build a dock (more $$) to get there, the current pipe stops at the 45 deg slope, and it's dangerously slippery when dry, impossible when wet.

[Jedon]

How much does dips in the penstock affect pressure at the bottom?

[Tom Reed]

Not much unless you've got a big slug of air in the pent stock.

[Jedon]

Thanks, I'll focus my energies elsewhere for now then :-)
What about my idea of either putting a transformer on the alternator before it gets rectified, or not rectifying the power at all?
I'm going to call IOTA and have them explain a little more how the charger works.