48V charging via ST generator and solar charge controller (no ST mod)

[Tom Reed]

Great news! What's the input voltage reported by the charge controller.

[rcavictim]

Update:

Is there such a thing as just a isolation transformer with a 1:1 winding ratio?   Time to do some google searches.   I'll post pics later tonight.

Also, I'll start a new thread later tonight with data on how my masonry stove is heating the 500 gallon water tank in the basement.   You'll be waiting with baited breath for sure.....

1:1 isolation transformers are common.  My pet pun name for such a beast is an "insulation transformer". 

You have a 500 gallon water heat storage tank in your basement?!  Sweet.

[mike90045]

Also, I'll start a new thread later tonight with data on how my masonry stove is heating the 500 gallon water tank in the basement.   You'll be waiting with baited breath for sure.....

Oh baby!  Do you have a 1" stainless pipe in the flue passages ?

[mbryner]

mike and rcavictim, I started a new thread for the masonry stove hot water system.      Here it is:

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=1555.0

It is a stainless steel 1" pipe, but it's in the firebox, not in the flue.

[rcavictim]

It is a stainless steel 1" pipe, but it's in the firebox, not in the flue.

We got sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssteam heat, we got sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssteam heat......

[Billk]

I have a similar setup and the vfx3524 does support the listeroid.   Say a compressor comes on when I'm running a mill and someone in the house causes the well pump to turn on.  There might be a little blimp but it's nothing that would reset a pc. I'd be more pleased if it were so perfect that I couldn't even detect it in the momentary light flicker. But that's asking a lot.
   I want to clarify. Maybe we are talking about the same thing.  It is not really supporting the generator.  It is replacing the gen ac with inverted ac until the excessive load passes then it returns to generated ac.  But I'm pleased with that.

Marcus,

Welcome to my world. We've got a 3.4 kw solar array on the roof and s listeroid 6/1 too. Ours was used without the solar panels for 99% of the construction because we mounted the array on the roof. The system is currently setup to charge through the out back vfx3648 inverters that are wired out of phase to feed a standard utility panel. The only real problem we encounter is that if the micro wave or jet pump turn while the generator is running it will lower the voltage enough to cause the inverters to drop out of charge mode and then in a minute they will reconnect. I had expected the inverters to come with "Generator Support" however although the menu item is there it is not functional. Had the generator support  been functional when the load exceeded the max amp set point the inverters should have synced to the generator and switched to inverter mode until the load dropped and the inverters would return to charger mode.

I have contacted Outback about this without reply and am quite disappointed in how they have handled this. I've even wrote a correction to Home Power magazine about their article stating that the Outback inverters will do generator support and no reply from them either.

So assuming you have outback inverters you are stuck as am I. Please keep us informed as I am thinking of doing something similar to you with our system.

[mbryner]

Hello Billk,

Yes, we are talking about the same thing.   My vfx3648's  will not work like your Outback inverter does, that is, supply battery power instead of charging until the excessive load passes.  That's what made me start this thread.

This thread is fairly old and I've made several changes to my system (that are one other threads) but the overall concept is the same.   The first setup as described here was ST head 240 VAC --> 2:1 isolation transformer --> large bridge rectifier --> filter/choke --> DC input to MX80.   The Outback charge controller (MX80) couldn't handle the higher voltage from the 120 VAC rectified to 160+ VDC.   Therefore, I had to use a 10 ohm variable resistor in the excitation field to decrease the output to about 90 VAC.   Then, the ST head didn't always self excite correctly, though.   It was a pain to fiddle with the variable resistor and breakers whenever I went to Lister charging mode.   Also, you have to limit the charge current somehow, which can be done in the MX80 but then you won't be using all your solar potential.    So, I bought a Midnight Solar Classic 200 which can handle higher input voltages than the Outback.   I was able to eliminate the variable resistor from the circuit and I don't have to go through menus on the charge controller every time I do Lister charging.   The Midnight Solar Classic is also used for my new hydroelectric input, so I needed it anyway.    That brings this thread up to date, and hopefully answers your PM, also.   The system works great as a giant UPS now!

Marcus

[Tom Reed]

Hello Billk,

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like your inverter has a functioning generator support system, I know some of the foreign ones do. Unfortunately Marcus and my Outback inverters do not have that feature working. It is a menu item, but non-functional. So when the big loads come on there is no assist from the battery.

[Billk]

I just looked at the sticker on my first vfx3524. It was made 4th quarter if 2004.  I think I got it a month after that. that's the one I used with successful support. Just last month I installed a second  vfx as a dedicated charger.I do not know if it supports.  It was only temporary. It's going to be used for its intended purpose after I install a charger.  And this thread has found it for me.   I'll be installing a midnight classic this week or next.
  So what happens when your inverter fails to support? Everything goes black and then comes back on 30 seconds later?
  Curious thing, the new vfx that I have been using as a charger is made in India unlike the old one and when the fan comes on it smelled exactly like aspirin.  And a lot. Like if you held your nose to a bottle of it.  Only your 3 feet from the inverter.  I have never smelled that from an electronic device. That did go away after a while.

Hello Billk,

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like your inverter has a functioning generator support system, I know some of the foreign ones do. Unfortunately Marcus and my Outback inverters do not have that feature working. It is a menu item, but non-functional. So when the big loads come on there is no assist from the battery.

[Billk]

I could be wrong, it's been so long since I got the vfx, it was 2005. But I think I had problems with the generator support.  Its just possible that I had to send back my outback mate and get another one sent to me. Like its  1st gen EPROM had old or buggy code that didn't work with that feature.

[Tom Reed]

I have worked with some of the top engineers at Outback, the generator support is not and will not ever be available in the VFX3648. The manual that came with the unit confirms that generator support is not enabled on my unit.

[d34]

I need to add another charge controller to my setup so I can add the extra solar I already have.  I have every part to do as Marcus is doing except the controller.  I currently have an MX60.  Instead of getting another MX60 I think I will go with Midnite and get the classic 200 just for this purpose.  I am in the process of setting up a 110-555 for charging.  But if something happens to that it would be nice to use the ST5 (or other 240vac source) and Classic 200 as a back up.  Thanks for updating us Marcus!