Auto Alternator for Lister 6/1

[veggie]

Hi,

I have noted many listeroids with automotive alternators in conjunction with ST heads.
My 6/1 has a mount area for the water pump.
I don't use the belt driven water pump so I thought I would fabricate a mount for an automotive alternator to mate with the water pump location.
I don't want to reinvent the wheel, so I thought I would poll the forum to find how others have done this.
Here's the criteria...

1] Simple: Basic off the shaft auto alternator and regulator (no electrical mods)

2] Please recommend an alternator make or car model that worked for you.

3] My 6/1 has a single v-belt sheave so I can't drive a serpentine alternator pulley. (single V-Belt only)

4] It will be used to charge a battery bank. Voltage can be 12, 24, or 48. (I did not buy the Inverter yet).

5] Looking for simple wiring and voltage regulation.

Any tips and recommendations would be helpful,

Cheers,
Veggie

[bschwartz]

I also have the spare water pump pulley.  I had considered the same, then gave thought to the small size of the pulley (size really does matter).  I would think an auto alternator would be spun too slowly by it.

[potter]

I drive my V belt alternator directly off the flywheel seems to work fine, long belt though.
  Potter

[dubbleUJay]

I'm considering doing the same thing, I ended up with a 24Volt 25Amp (600Watts) alternator from our mobile crane, which seems a bit to small for me compared to it size, but I do have a 220Vac (3kW) (with 24Vdc 5A starter/charger built-in) Genhead on the Lister CS6/1 as well. The 24Vdc-5A (120Watt) charger is just for charging the 2x starter batteries though.
My Izusu KB2200 bakkie (pick-up for USA)  has a bigger (higher output) alternator in it I think, compared to the one from the 6cyl Tadano crane
But this one also has the vacuum pump on the back and it seems quite hefty to the one in the pickup.

I know these pumps on the back of "diesel" alternators are for air vacuum ie brake-booster, but would it pump WVO for circulating it for filtering?

Veggie, I don't want to hijack your thread, but this might be interesting if one can use the vacuum pump for something else as well?
The only thing around here that works with a vacuum is my cow milking machine, but I dont think starting the Lister to milk 1 or 2 cows is going to be productive!

dubbleUJay

[veggie]

I suppose I could drive the alternator from the flywheel with a serpentine belt if necessary.
What's the target (sweet spot) rpm for most automotive alternators? 3000 rpm ?

Veggie

[Crofter]

Some self energizing alternators need a quite high rpm to initiate. I have a Delco Remy single wire unit refit to a farm tractor and it needs a good hard buzz on the throttle momentarily to kick in and then will produce at lower speed. I suspect a bit more than 3000 rpm is required for this one but that probably varies. Mobile Bob would be the brain to pick on that!

I had a look at an attached vacuum pump and noticed it had an oil feed line from the engine to seal and lube the pump so it should pump mineral oil happily. Have heard that veggy oil can be harder on some seals though than Dino oil. No experience there at all though.

[dubbleUJay]

Veggie, you've probably read this article:
http://islandcastaway.com/stuff/windpower/Alternator%20Secrets.htm

They talk a bit about speed, but explain more the workings of it and getting 120Vac output from it.
There's a few wiring diagrams as well, maybe it helps.

Frank, thanks, I'll open this one some time and see what type of pump it is ie gear-pump, impeller, I don't know
I presume the oil goes from the sump to the pump and gets back to the engine via the air outlet pipe. As seen in the picture, there's only 1 pipe to oil, 1 thin air pipe for vacuum & 1 thicker for outlet. The only way for the oil to get back is via the air-out I suppose.

[dubbleUJay]

Crofter is right, MobileBob will be your guy, but from what I read, 2100rpm seems to be minimal and 8000 maximum rpm.

[Crofter]

Yes the large pipe back to the sump would be the exhaust from the vacuum pump plus the incidental seal and lube oil. That normally would only see crankcase pressure so if you put it into service where that was a pressure discharge the seal system might not handle it.. It is years ago but my memory tells me that it was either a vane pump or an internal/external gear and crescent arrangement.

[dubbleUJay]

Frank, I presume (and I'm doing that a lot lately) then that if I'm going to pump oil with it for circulating a WVO filter system, I can probably block off the oil feed as it would pump oil anyway

BTW, I'm not thinking pressures for a centrifugal filter, merely slightly pressurizing a closed bag or cartridge filter system so it can "hurry up" and get on with it! 

[rbodell]

Hi,

I have noted many listeroids with automotive alternators in conjunction with ST heads.
My 6/1 has a mount area for the water pump.
I don't use the belt driven water pump so I thought I would fabricate a mount for an automotive alternator to mate with the water pump location.
I don't want to reinvent the wheel, so I thought I would poll the forum to find how others have done this.
Here's the criteria...

1] Simple: Basic off the shaft auto alternator and regulator (no electrical mods)

I went to the junk yard and got the cheapest one on the shelf that used an EXTERNAL regulator. When I installed it I used a rheostat instead of a regulator so that when it gets a surface charge the alternator does not shut down to 5 or 10 amps. It keeps charging at whatever I set it at. On my 6/1 I can run it at about 30 amps without smoking, with waste motor as fuel I can set it at about 32 amps without smoking. I have 6 6 volt deep cycle batteries and get no battery heating even after 6 hours. My 6 deep cycle batteries come up about 1.5 volts in 6 hours of charging at app 30 amps. Put a volt meter next to your recliner in the living room. Keep the battery charge down to 14.5 volts or below


2] Please recommend an alternator make or car model that worked for you.

3] My 6/1 has a single v-belt sheave so I can't drive a serpentine alternator pulley. (single V-Belt only)

I just used a standard V-belt on the flywheel. No groove in the flywheel.


4] It will be used to charge a battery bank. Voltage can be 12, 24, or 48. (I did not buy the Inverter yet).

5] Looking for simple wiring and voltage regulation.

I use a rheostat so the load on the engine is constant. It's not good to run a diesel without a load.

Any tips and recommendations would be helpful,

keep it simple. The less complicated it is, the less there is to break.


Cheers,
Veggie

[potter]

picture

[vdubnut62]

Several kits are available for many different alternators to modify them for some really weird stuff. There is a low speed cut in for a Delco
one wire to allow it to start charging at idle speed. We use them to retrofit old tractors. I have a Ford alternator set up for 6 volt charging
on the old Deere.
Talk to your local rebuilder, you will probably be amazed, as I was, about that is available.
Ron

[mobile_bob]

from another viewpoint

be very careful that your rebuilder understands exactly how the alternator will be used
very few have any understanding about the demands placed on an alternator for heavy output
over long hours of charging, and most all automotive alternators are poorly suited for this type of
abusive operation.

lots of builders can set you up with some massive output alternator, but will it do it for 10 minutes?
an hour? all day? everyday?

a big question you will want answered honestly.

bob g

[veggie]

Potter,

Nice setup.!
The location of your Alternator is probably the only place I could mount mine also.
Just wondering...where does your exhaust pipe run after turning downwards?

Veggie