Drilled valve guides?

[cgwymp]

I seem to recall seeing somewhere that Dursley Lister valve guides had a small hole in so that oil could drool down from the oil reservoir in the head onto the valvestem.  Is this correct?  What size hole would we be talking?  This seems like a useful modification to my undrilled guides, because I can see no way that pouring oil into the oil reservoir on my 'roid would do anything to lubricate the valves unless the top of the guide were submerged....

Also, what sort of valve stem clearance is typical?  Mine is, I'm sure, way too excessive, but what is normal for these engines?

Cheers!

[Crofter]

Harder than the valve tappet bodies? They are drilled.

No bets on the listeroid metal but I have seen quite a few in automotive applications, including some broken ones that appeared to be a fine grain grey cast iron. There was an extensive thread on rocker arm geometry on some other site. I spent a couple of hours on mine to get it reasonable to put the minimum side thrust on the guiides. Had to oblong both the large and small hole in the rocker shaft stand.

You could cut a disk of heavy felt ID of the inner spring with a forced fit over the stem that would hold and dole out an oil supply to the valve stem. With the piston TDC on compression you can easily pop off the retainers to do this without the valves getting swallowed. 15 minute job!

[vdubnut62]

I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that Listeroid valve guides are cast iron.
Cast iron will not harden like steel, therefore you should have no trouble drilling it, if you wanted.
Ron

[cgwymp]

Thanks for the input!  Let's assume as an academic exercise that the valve guides are bronze and so material hardness isn't an issue.  (Mine aren't, but let's ignore that).  Are they ever drilled?

Also, any guidance on stem clearance?

Cheers!

[Ronmar]

I havn't seen any references to oil holes in any of the original lister documentation I have looked at.  I do know that when overfilling the valve cups, the engine rapidley consumes this excess oil down the valve guides.  On the other hand, the valve springs and guides are always damp with oil.  This oil wicks up the springs and guides from the oil in the cups. This in addition to the oil arriving in vapor form when the head gets hot...

[vdubnut62]

In my opinion, I have never seen any engine that had lube holes into the valve guide itself, in fact almost everything has some sort of seal to stop oil from running down the valve stem.  Even the lowly Briggs and Stratton has only a small hole from the crankcase into the valve stems and springs that admits only vapors and maybe a little oil spray. If you drill your valve guides, the oil that you pour into the recess will run down the stem in a matter of minutes and then any benefit would be very short term because you would then lose the reservoir that would otherwise vaporize onto the valve stem. I believe that drilling your guides would do more harm than good.
Now remember that all I know is what I have seen, and I don't claim to be anything other than a farmer, tinkerer, truck driver, and shade tree mechanic, but all my stuff has been running for a long time, and nobody works on it but me.
Ron

[Crofter]

I thought I had seen side drilled holes on my guides but cannot tell now with the springs in place. The depression that they sit in seems to empty out and I dont think it is all running uphill of the guide and down the valve stem. The guides are pressed pretty tight into the head so I dont see the oil disappearing there. There is no hole visible in the pic I see on the CMD parts list but you can only see what faces the camera. I tried to rotate them but that didnt work, lol!

I suppose if they were drilled a balsa splint or something semi porous could be put in the holes to keep the oil from being sucked down immediately and gone. I think more oil would hang around for extended oiling if they were not drilled.

[listeroil]

Genuine lister CS engines do not have holes in the valve guides. The oil should be just below the valve guide, as in picture below.

Mick

[cgwymp]

Hmm.  Ok -- maybe I dreamt it.  I really thought I had read it somewhere, but maybe not.  I know "normal" engines have seals instead of holes, but "normal" engines do not have exposed valve gear.  ;-)

Now, about that valve stem clearance....

[vdubnut62]

Usually on valve stem/guide clearance, the guides wear out oblong or egg shape the bore, especially if the rocker arms are misaligned. For most stuff, if it will wiggle enough to see it move noticeably, it too loose. I don't have first hand experience with a lister type though. But it stands to reason, if the guide is sloppy then the valve will "slide" sideways into the seat causing accelerated wear that would egg shape your valve seats. Anything that wears will cause a cascading effect, wearing something else prematurely.
Ron

[Ian]

My original Lister 5/1 valve guides DO NOT have oil holes in them. The original valve guides supplied in my JKSon 12/1 also had NON DRILLED valve guides; however, all the replacement (Indian) valve guides (sourced from both Anand and JKSon) I have received have oil holes in both inlet and exhaust guides.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Ian

[cgwymp]

Usually on valve stem/guide clearance, the guides wear out oblong or egg shape the bore, especially if the rocker arms are misaligned. For most stuff, if it will wiggle enough to see it move noticeably, it too loose. I don't have first hand experience with a lister type though. But it stands to reason, if the guide is sloppy then the valve will "slide" sideways into the seat causing accelerated wear that would egg shape your valve seats. Anything that wears will cause a cascading effect, wearing something else prematurely.
Ron

Hi Ron,
This is a brand-new engine so there's not been time to wear anything oblong, but my experience has been like yours -- noticeable movement is too much clearance.  Most of the engines I've dealt with have a clearance spec of ca. 0.004" or less.  But this is my first Lister type so I don't know if they should be set up looser.  I definitely need new guides right now though -- they're way loose.  Good Rajkot Q.C....

[cgwymp]

My original Lister 5/1 valve guides DO NOT have oil holes in them. The original valve guides supplied in my JKSon 12/1 also had NON DRILLED valve guides; however, all the replacement (Indian) valve guides (sourced from both Anand and JKSon) I have received have oil holes in both inlet and exhaust guides.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Ian

Hmm.  Maybe that's what I'm remembering seeing.  Thanks!

[cujet]

Of course, modern automotive engines take serious measures to keep oil out of the valve guide/valve interface. The seals are very well designed and do not permit any oil to pass.

Older automotive engines were different, but they were not better or longer lasting.

There should be no need to lubricate valve guides.

[mike90045]

What about using a synthetic oil (mobile 1) for the daily hand oiling of the upper end ?  Would the few drops that seep into the valve stems cause a problem, or if  some found it's way into the rockers - down the pushrods and into the tappets & cam? 

I liked the cotton mop oil wick I'd read about somewhere, to keep the upper stuff oiled too.