shop work

[playdiesel]

Just another detail that takes little time and makes for a quality job, deburring the nuts. In my experiance the metal quality is good enough but finish is terrible. I flat file the clamping surface for proper function, and the outside just so they look good.

[Henry W]

You are fortunate to have good bearings. Are the fasteners all Whitworth threads? It's been a while since I've been around one.
Great detail.

Henry

[playdiesel]

To my knowledge all Listeroids are Whitworth threads. 

[playdiesel]

On to camshaft and lifters. Over the years much has been posted about issues and fixes, unfortunately most of it is not of any real use. We have had enough of these through the shop to have a base of what the real issues are with lifter rotation and valve timing . I will address rotation here and timing later.
Lifter rotation is caused by only one thing, pressure on the lifter that is not centered on the lifter axis. Engineers used various methods to accomplish it but on a CS the lifters are not centered over the cam lobes. I have never seen an India cam that did NOT have the lobes correctly placed, so why are there issues with most of them?? 4  things
1. Loose lifter guides
2. flimsey stamped guide clamp
3. lifter face not square to axis
4. bent camshaft.
Fixes
1 and 2 Check the fit of the guides in the block. If snug enough that the guides must be tapped in put a gasket under them and tap them in and place the flimsy clamp over them and tighten. However, if they are loose in the block the flimsy clamp will not hold them square and that causes issues, mainly with the exhaust. The fix is to trash the tin clamp and make a heavy duty one that will hold the guides down and square. sorry no pics of that since this engine has tight guides.
3. I have never seen an India lifter that was correctly ground. some are close, some are real bad. This shows up as lifters that rotate back and forth or not at all depending on how far out they are. we have equipment to fix this. it's not something one can do in the average home shop.
4. bent cams, adressed in next post.

pics show lifters that have been properly dressed.

[playdiesel]

More work on the 6/1.  In my experience, 30 some Listeroids through the shop,  bent camshaft are a major issue and get likely the vast majority of Listeroid timing problema reported.
Photo show cam up on blocks and TIR.  depending on which way itvis bent this much bend coould affect valve opening and closing events by 15 -20 degrees.

[BruceM]

I look forward to reading of your fix for the bent camshaft.  Thanks to Butch's great instructional article I was able to address that for my neighbors DES 8/1.  I used hardwood vee blocks and  sledge  hammer with hardwood drift to get it back to true, and the force required was absolutely scary.  I'd find a press if I had to do it again. 

[mike90045]

How does a camshaft get bent ? Gorillas in the factory whamming it together, making it fit ?

[Henry W]

That is the exact question I was going to ask.

Can a piece of round tool steel be used to replace it? I would think it would be easy to drill pin holes at proper angles. But than again it would have to be degreed and locked up properly possibly in a lathe. So it might not be as easy as I would think.

Henry

[Henry W]

I must say that your getting lots accomplished and doing a beautiful job. I'm enjoying the build. Your documentation is very good and I'm looking forward seeing more.

Henry

[playdiesel]

I can only speculate on how the cans get bent but it's very likely that it happens when installing the taper pins in the shafts. I have also seen shafts that were drilled but never had a taper reamer used prior to installing the pin and that will certainly push the shaft around.  I have also seen severely bent cams in engines that have rusted the valves tight.  When they are cranked over with stuck valves it bends the cam.  Sraightening the cam is easy most of the time. Press is of course preferred but no reason it could be done with 3 hardwood blocks and a 2lb hammer. Its not hard to build a cam. the pin holes in the lobes are situated so all the holes are in a line. You just have to get the spacing right.

[playdiesel]

 Valve seats are something that India does a very poor job. The typical seat is 2X wider than the valve face. while it will get an engine out the door it won't seal for very long.
I cut out the old seat, counter bore and install hard seats with K-Line tooling.

[playdiesel]

After performing a bit of port blending I cut, not grind, a 3 angle seat with Kwikway tooling and set valve depth at .055" which is the minimum spec, that way the seats and valves can be ground several times before the valve heads reach the maximum depth of .100"

[usheral]

Valve seats are something that India does a very poor job. The typical seat is 2X wider than the valve face. while it will get an engine out the door it won't seal for very long.
I cut out the old seat, counter bore and install hard seats with K-Line tooling.

What is the K-Line tooling you're using there? I took a look on their site and it seems like the pieces under counter boring are all for doing cylinder boring or re-sleeving?

This a great thread that you posted here. I have a 2-24 listeroid that has been sitting here for years that I'm just going back to work on the teardown. Your work is very inspirational!

[Tom Reed]

I bought a set like this to do the valves in my 6/1. The seats cut with it are working great.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184772588925?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2b054df57d:g:N5cAAOSwvwRgRxzh&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickk8Fd9si%252FIbtWQr%252BhnlRwjDZoTDUvT8EcOseA%252BWmLYStBd8eEJtk51EfLh1xifvnCQ9O%252FNviYTVpaL6hl8HUDnUXQUb01EDQUB%252BuAFtBXoo6XgoQuAhmVEXOHRk2sZyqyrcNfKgxm6JDB8aVRkOj%252BgWrJU4oBlTPhmNrbsRjvRcWVnm1AxKZ7Gnm93b5ShuTBc4jfHzAewE8ofJQu2i6kpuia8WvNWiMg3TJleq%252FOaYCpnGFgQpVDPBt5LjQOXQN0anuUcfwlARaPY4l8e3BmTBX%252BMkxZLYGZRhurycEOM6ImkI3dlgPLcPTOncbOaNzz5CnD8rjq%252BAHrN2E%252FH%252B0%252F8i6EnTMjz90keOviLe5356%252FPe5steB3xUX%252Ffs8Nvomwvh3T9bGdK5cXWXSxh9O9VDTQHiHaDYeaorCpknesiamgngLM0v62hirLKWOc8mkASz8GfKE8K5trM51llFCM%252BiEeV%252FXh7LzCPUu6Z4inLW%252BnPBEDYUNIjbLvwuytonHHwqKMsaTag%252BL7P49QqdPHs%252BNADpQQkzFvHeuJLgaZ1kCB1CQjBmUQJz3G7B%252FrF2r%252BCaMYAiWSS4zLepUum4tTIAHqbhWh1CuB2z5xRyLl196aRLUVozE3I03foKtoaIkmJ7pmdnFrb6BHNnnPmRt4PBDza1Djr9C2adlyOIMBrOAs9xHTY0azb22AI%252BgheqnB9Ct6MJuCFsGZDlDnrOTY1919IwcBGCnsRKl4F%252FhMpPpOjgYWP8Ql6%252BHAEUGPpia%252BB5%252FRAjNp7WcprM8dioJgnLeGQGeEEwj74qBVzrXk2n72Q%253D%7Ccksum%3A1847725889250a0efa8305564ad49956c8fdc51c55a0%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

[usheral]

Thanks!