Cummins Engine

[vdubnut62]

Have you bothered to look into the death rates for the people that process the rare earth minerals and build the exotic batteries that these "green" little 'lectric fellers have to possess
to be viable?
And no, I have not either, but my spidey sense tells me a wow moment would be in order.
Ron.

[Derb]

Yeah - we all gotta take a slooow, deep breath of some of that lovely fine Lithium dust that powers most of todays toys.

[LowGear]

Lot's of important opinions being presented here.  This is one of the aspects of this blog and the other one I like.  Real adults do play nicer with others. 

We're talking really big money so our information sources are subject to vested influence.  That's the nice way of writing "fake news".  Whether that's "electric cars will save the world or coal miners will loose their retirement benefits" the underlying cash transfers are going to motivate the less ethical to distribute conjured facts or information. 

I want us all to ask the big questions every once in a while.  Is this process the best for us and our habitat?  Do I want this process in my back yard?

I have solar collectors on top of my energy building.  I don't want a coal in my county.

Have you ever changed lanes to get out from behind a diesel truck or bus because it stinks?  An electric bus?

PS.  My understanding is that the new batteries are less than 2% lithium.  Yea, I know.  We're gearing up to manufacture millions of them every week.  Machines will soon replace the children in lithium mines due to cost and efficiency.  Perhaps the children can find work harvesting gold.  ;~)

[BruceM]

And then there is the serious public health issue of the substantial EMF exposure in an electric car... though some gas ignition cars are also horrible due to bad EMC design. 

I'm not sure if it's even possible to to have a low EMF electric car- even with development of a specialized motor, the variable frequency drive and shielding, and these are areas I'm fairly technically astute.  It would take one hell of an R&D project to pull it off.

Some non-corporate funded researchers already think that our rapidly worsening EMF environment in homes and workplaces is leading to the noted increasing incidence of degenerative neurological diseases, autoimmune diseases, autism, etc.  If the trends continue, it could do us in before climate change does.

On all other technical grounds - I think PV charged batteries for home and car electric power is a real winner, if only a vastly reduced EMI design strategy was incorporated.  The present crop of products- both PV charge controllers  and inverters are serious EMI generators; aka "dirty power".  Converting to hydrogen is inefficient as hell, or I'd say PV to hydrogen with smartplug type diesel engine operation for the ultimate in clean low EMF vehicle, with proper design.

Battery tech is STILL the technical bottleneck.  A single order of magnitude improvement would make the power grid a buggy whip for most homes.  I hope it happens soon, but we've been saying that for over a 100 years, and wet lead-acid is still the value king for home power. 

[SteveU.]

Ok now fellow Washington State'r Mr Casey.
I read back up on this topic to see when, where it diverted from an old Cummins engine to typical all-solar, all-of-the-time, will-save-the-planet spieling.
So was the Cummins engine just a bit'o old iron thigh, cleavage flashing to get a look going?

John Micheal Greer in 2013 published out a book:
"Green Wizardry: Conservation, Organic gardening, and other Hands-On Skills from the Appropriate Tech Toolkit"
ISBN 978-0-86571-747-3
page 163 quote on consequences of bio-fuel mandating:
"I wonder how many of the proponents of biofuel production have thought through the consequences of a future driving that might include being stopped at makeshift barricades and torn to pieces by an impoverished mob that is all too aware that every drop of ethanol or biodiesel in the tank represents FOOD taken from the mouths of their children?"
And he has a lot to say about west/east coast PV solar jet-setters.
Talk-talk. And a bit of show until the "need" to go event (100,000) fly-into Portland OR, solar elclipsing. Of course airline carbon footprinting is just so . . . plebium, common. The real jet-setters private jet last minute flew directly into Madaras Oregon. Elon Musk. Jeff Bezos. Kid Rock and about 397 others.

The actual Rural living, taxes-paying in Washington, Oregon and Nor-Cal are going to be chipping away at your trillion dollar west coast Elites pig-out not-highway. And where did all of the power cord-plugs go? Who would gobber-up, sticky-wad my power port while I was in peeing at a rest-stop? A sticky hard to remove bumper-tag-you is actually pretty benign. Misdemeanor only. An Aldo the Apache fascists tagging

Grow some commonsense man an just take your pick of now well proven hybrid cars that do not require a whole new infrastructure.

actual tons and tons of green-growing carbon-capturing annually, tree-farmer Steve Unruh

[LowGear]

Aloha Steve,

The thread was started in good faith.  I think the Cummins is a real piece of industrial art.  It also helps me appreciate what a marvel of simple, hence great, engineering the Lister is.

I'm not sure where the thread went bad.  Bad thread!  Bad thread!

Actually, I was born on Pill Hill, Seattle.  My parents wasted little time arranging for a ration book.  Ahhh, the good old days.  I've been a card carrying Renton-ite all of my life.  I'm in the same room right now that I had in the 10th grade.  I was conceived next door.  My wife lives in Hawaii.  I spend almost 9 months there a year.  Wintering out in Kona isn't easy but a few of us have to keep the island prosperous.  Let go of the homestead here in Renton - No F*%^ing way!

Darn that Elon.  He didn't stop by and pick me up.  I caught a ride through Craigslist in a - believe it or not - Prius.  <4 hours down and >10 hours back.  Neat, huh?

Change is difficult.  Petroleum powered transportation wasn't exactly given the red carpet treatment back at the start of the 20th century.  We see few photos of the tons of horse manure picked up daily in New York City prior to this "advancement".  Chariots and bronze tools weren't universally accepted either.  Change is difficult.  Change can be really interesting too and it is the only certainty.

Casey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Michael_Greer

https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/08/29/how-to-design-a-misleading-study-to-show-diet-doesnt-work/?utm_source=NutritionFacts.org&utm_campaign=c6b1e9c220-RSS_BLOG_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_40f9e497d1-c6b1e9c220-24598229&mc_cid=c6b1e9c220&mc_eid=0618e8a3dc

[SteveU.]

Yes John Micheal G. is kinda different appearing alright. Does not mean he is not very wide/deep in his historical and current reading, with a deep sense of organized societal/culturals history's patterns though.
His G.W. and later 2016 "Dark Ages America" books References and Bibliography sections shows this well. So let us be charitable and call him not libertarian, Democrat or Republican, eh. Independent. Very.
For an avowed Democrat read James Howard Kustner. Start with his "The Long Emergency".
For a Republican (former) read Chris Martenson PhD. Start with his "The Crash Course". I think he would now call himself a Libertarian. Or also very Independent.
John Micheal G. now moved from the PNW " . . living in Cumberland MD in an old mill town in the Appalachians"
James Howard K. now moved from NYC born, educated to living in a small New York mid-state town. With well proven historic water milling capability.
Chris Martensen and family now  from upper-yuppie east coast suburbia living in rural Massachusetts. "..for the soil capability and climate adaptability (natural rain), and good values neighbors . . ."
And I live on the edge of my wife's very small up in the casades foothills old-mill mountain town. Once with a 4kW small hydro-electric system with electric light before the City of Portland. Where I was born and grew up south county now has expaned out housing projects too. So foods gardening-wise I had to adapt from southern England to north Scotland so to speak. Needs-must.

And of course BobG. here moved back out to a small town in Kansas.

So, Mr Casey follow the lead of you wife and get out of the now urban-gut out to rural and real. They will not be operating jet airplanes on solar. Not ever. Just not in the energy math's capability. Passenger capable boats still do make a monthly or so back and forth with bulk freight to the Islands and back. Last I checked only out of S.F. area. Be easy to envision no-more-cheap petroleum isolation stay-put for HI Obamma-land.

tree-farmer Steve unruh

[Derb]

Cheers for the laughs Fellas!    Now this is what makes this forum so much darn fun. Open, frank, lively, humorous discussion. Keep up the good work.

[LowGear]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having fun.

Too bad them edumacated fellas couldn't connect with the land they were born to.  Trust me; the shopping on the Big Island simply sucks.  The roads are poor.  And riding a bicycle is almost a death wish.  (I shipped mine back after three rides.)  OK, it has gorgeous weather during November, December, January, February, March and maybe a couple of other months too but August in Seattle just can't be beat. Is growing bananas, pineapple, coconuts, papaya, dragon fruit and a mango or two really that important?  Wouldn't you know two of those are mostly harvested in August.

Once we have an abundance of electricity we'll move on to hydrogen powered services.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXe1hBvlylw  I don't believe Robert has a PhD but most of his YouTube videos are fun.

Enjoy the day.  

Best wishes,

Casey

[SteveU.]

Hey guys.
Actually these last two post of yours illistartes some important point about who, how, why the usibity and viabilty of "alternative" energies. Versus Dino.
J.M.Greer supports himself with selling his published writings. I just finished up reading his near-future (if-this-goes-on) novel "Twilight's Last Gleaming". A quote from page 52 by his 2026 then American President Weed:
". . . the scientists tried to come up with something to take the place of oil. You know the score: ethanol, wind, shale, solar, fusion, hydrates - - - one goddamn subsidy dumpster after another."
To build the big PNW hydroelectric dams that they did when I was  kid took lots and lots of petroleum dino fuel to make the concretes, steels; do the blasting excavating and such. I WATCH them build Trojan, and 3/4 build the Sasop Nuke power plants. Lot and lot of concrete, steels and diesel powered equipment used. I watch train loads of BIG wind tower, blades, gen housing being railed up the Columbia River gorge. Lot of Dino for the trains. Dino needed to ocean ship these in from European manufacturers. Dino in the form of Russian natural gas used by the European manufactures.
PV solar? I worked 7 years in the Washington State, Clark County electronic Fabs industry. High grade communications and power chips. OUR scrap and reject were carefully collected up and shipped for re-menting and regrowth into PV solar cells. These Fab plants: the Japanese one, the Korean one, The German one are multi billion dollar investments. Hugh amounts of Dino power made concrete and steels and glass and diesel powered equipment gone into their constructions.
Why Clark Countu WA? State tax grant subsidies. Huge. Location within one hour driving from Portland International Airport. Japanese/Korean/German execs, engineers, upper managers IN. High grade finished product out to the world. 'Nother reason. Local new immigrant and newly displaced NON-UNION manufacturing worker base willing to work hard long 12 hours shifts.
Many like J.M. Greer, Kustner, Martenson and other saying now without energy dense Dino-imputs no new big grid supping plants could be build. Even the existing built up by Dino infa-structures likr centralized Grids and macadam and concrete roads will not be able to be maintained.

Mr Casey hydrogen power is just another TOP-Down, don't worry, we will solve your problem spin. Just give us your votes to hog-out the dry holes. Our Elitist's positions and lifestyles depending on your sheepele bleating votes.
Tom Wolfe in his book, "The Right Stuff" attributes on of the first Apollo selected astronauts as insisting to one of the rocket scientists that really man, you only think these things will fly strictly by better application of your science. These lift off by Funding. You need us grandstanding to get the public interest, to get the votes, to get the funding.
Mr Casey popular literature's grandstanding for genuies-up replacement for petroleum fuels been going on hard since the early 1960's.

The BIG Y-in-the-road of usable, practical alternatives developing is distinctly hard turning from Top-Down for Others, to DOing it for me and mine.

OK Derb, as a proven DYI DOer . . . I know almost all on your equipment systems listing . . . what is the last one please?

Regards
tree-farmer Steve unruh

[LowGear]

Sometimes the here and now has more to teach than the imagination of a 21st century pharaoh. 

I wonder how much those people that can't be in their homes are being compensated for by the petroleum company that is sweating out another container catching fire and pooping nasty stuff, in the air and the water, out on everyone.  I wonder how much the authorities will bill them for taking care of the fire fighting and nasty stuff cleanup activities.  Nope, no subsidies here.  Too bad they didn't have any warning about having generators in a flood zone and not putting them up on towers.  Too bad they didn't have back up pumps for the floating roof storage tanks.  Good luck they're in Texas where the stupid government doesn't come in and tell companies how to run their businesses.  How much crap is the Japanese nuclear plant still sifting into the ocean? 

[Derb]

Hi Steve. An English single cylinder 4 stroke engine commonly used on old mowers, rotary hoes, water-pumps etc. It looks about early '60's thereabouts. I was given it by a guy cleaning out his shed. It is languishing in my "to do" pile at present. Looks around 3 - 5 HP I think. Will likely end up attached to an alternator or another Fisher and Paykel PMG for standby power. Cheers.

[LowGear]

Great ending Derb.

When the good times are over - they're over. 

Thanks to you all.

P.S.  I'm a bit reading challenged.  John Micheal Greer and his associates can be found on YouTube.

[SteveU.]

Interesting indeed Derb.
For many things, "cast iron does it better".
As a 16,17,18 y.o. lad back in 1969,70,71 I got a summer job at Ray P. Cosners Lawnmower & Small Engine shop.
I was paid $3.00 US for a lawnmower full tune-up/functions-restore IF I did not have to valve grind. $5.00 per unit that I did have to valve grind and/or piston rings replace.
The old then all cast iron B&S's, Kohlers were an easy dream to work on. Never any significant piston/bore/valve wear. Gummed up float type carburetors. Oxidized IG points.
The newer still valve in block/side valve aluminum engines not nearly as forgiving easy. The B&S's with pita die cast zink pumper suction carburetors. Yuk.
I was young. Young. and still quite a bit an engine dumb-dumb. The 2-stroke Lawnboys stumped me. I did not then know about crankshaft pressurization and shaft seals, intake reed valves.

The sweetest "old" cast iron small engine that I have is a JangDong R180.
Those old 1930's German engineers were smart.
Not much lost in the to-Japanese, then to-Chinesse translations of this extremely simple OHV design.

Mr Casey.
Net search up for readable link to "Tesla Comes to Kona".
About a young idealistic couple went off grid, solar. Disappointing that they could not grow exactly what they wanted. For subsistence, and selling. Disappointed to keep their batteries charged even with severe power use reductions they STILL had to gasoline generator run at times.
Sadly to me unable to see that they had more than half-filled many DIY glasses. Even letting forest-fears for their toddler child drive them.
Now looking, "to further educe their carbon footprint" by moving back to town and buying into the Islands co-operative Grid. And that co-operative being E.Musk (sp?) used as a Tesla battery demonstration site. Subsidized? Most likely.

Regards
Steve Unruh

[LowGear]

Hi Steve,

I couldn't find the article but for cooperative power they'd have to live on Kauai.  We pay about 33 cents on the big island "Hawaii" so our solar project paid for itself in just a few years.  And yes we got tax credits and a grant.  I want to thank all of you tax payers out there for a lot of savings.  I'm hoping the people that we purchased our supplies from are thankful as well.  The two people that helped me liked the program.  A very capable snow bird volunteered for two days.  A great experience.  I don't know what the financing on Kauai is but the big island is drooling over their rates.  The corporation that supplies power to our island also owns petroleum transportation and processing.  They buy on island sustainable power for 15 cent wholesale and sell it the same moment for 33.  Not a bad mark-up.  Yup, you're correct, that's 35,600% annual return.  That's the new grid tie program as well.  OMG, I'm almost on another rant.  One last thing.  If I upgrade my true grid tie - what you put on the grid is what you get back - I have to change my whole system to the new 35,600% program.

We did have to pay taxes on the grant but I consider tax credits an enlightened tax program where the payer gets to direct his/her taxes towards a category that makes sense to them rather than the big pot of military industrial testosterone bingo.  Here's my tax program:  The payer gets to pick up to 5 areas for his/her taxes to be spent.  No body picks sustainable power, climate change or global warming and those programs quite simply die.  Live by the buck - die by the buck.

Cheers,