New alternator for boat diesel - what make should I look for?

[Jens]

It's been a while of doing nothing with this issue but I have picked it up again. It turns out that the tripple nickle alternator will not physically fit as a replacement for my current alternator. Apparently the Balmar 614 series does but at a VERY steep price. Does anybody know who makes those alternators for Balmar?
The biggest issue is the depth of the alternator - the distance between the top of the input shaft and the top of the output studs on the back. The Balmar 614 has a full range from 70 to 160 amps in a case that actually fits into that small space. I currently have only a single 3/8 belt so my intention would be to run a Balmar equivalent 160 amp alternator with a 614 external regulator in the small engine mode at half power until I get around to changing to a serpentine belt.
The Balmar alternator seems to be in the $900 range which is a tad steep in my opinion.

[SteveU.]

Good Morning Jens
I just downloaded and looked through a Balmer products catalog.
This small 60's series alternator is either a Delphi ot Hitatchi base manufactured.
At least one, two other differetn base manufactuters on thier larger cased unit series.

"I think" you are a GM diesel truck driver? Go look out under your hood and compare cases, alt fans and rear case electrinics coveres to your Delphi unit. Then look at the dramatically differet alt mounting style. ~25% of the base price.
Balmer lists as having these custom sact up in a minimum od four differet case capabible mounting style in this small case series.
You already specified you wanted a no modification bolt on. So . . . .
I assume you do have insurance on your boat, eh? So . . . . 
Balmer had paid the price to have these rated and listed to four differerent world wide marine safety standards. A 555 Leece Nevinve or an automovtive take off will not have this assurance for your insurance inspector come the need to ever make a claim. ~25% of the base price.
Balmer has taked the addtional measures to have as much as possible on this unit "marinized" with powder coating of the raw aluminim cases and additons dipping of the windings and post overstray sealing of the electrinics and internal connections. I've retro'ed converted auto units up to this standard  - real paintaking PITA.  Another ~25% addtional of the base price.
So . . . . You will not get that in a 555 Leece Neville or an automotive take out unit either.

Just answering your topic lead of, "what should I look for?"

Regard
Steve Unruh

[Jens]

Steve, no need to insult me by accusing me of driving a GMC truck   I am a Ford truck guy !
Although it is somewhat worrying that the lack of marinizing could create issues, I am not quite sure what these issues might be as this is a diesel engine which is located inside the cabin area of a sail boat (not exposed to any weather or flammable fuel etc). The epoxy coating looks nice but the current alternator is not coated and shows no sign of corrosion after many years of service. Considering that the 555 sells for let's say around the $200 mark and the equivalent Balmar sells for around $900 mark, I would call this excessive. I would go further and say that Balmar is praying on the uninformed (not calling you uninformed though) to create an illusion of 'special' that is pure money in the bank for them.

Thank you for the hint for Delphi/Hitachi - I will see what I can find on their products!

Do other people think that the lack of marinization are likely to cause issues ? Maybe I am getting value for the $900 and not realizing it .... additional opinions greatly appreciated.

[mobile_bob]

i understand the marine issues brought up by Steve, however i see folks like amplepower building marine
apu's that use the 555 style alternator, and there are others that do as well.

now maybe they get around the issues because the apu's are contained in nice cabinets? i dunno

the 555 does have a sealed brush set, which should be agreeable with marine concerns for spark/ignition sources?

in any event i would be looking for whichever small case alternator like the bosch or hitachi that has an enclosed brush set or brushless design, so as to limit the exposure of a possible ignition source... even though diesel is the fuel used, probably best to at least make an attempt to limit this exposure?

bob g

[Jens]

It appears that I have done an injustice to Balmar when I said that I thought they were overpriced for what they are. It would appear that they are not just re-branded regular alternators but highly customized units that although pricey, give value for the money. In addition to better insulation they have better bearings, closer tolerance, square wire etc etc.
I will have to figure out if I want to pay the premium that goes with a small frame alternator that puts out as much power as a large frame unit or if I want to live with lower power output.

[Cornelius]

Remind me Jens;
The reason for wanting more power, was to be able to charge an upcoming Lithium bank as fast as possible? If so; i'd get the Lithium bank first; then worry about charging noise... The Lithium batteries wouldn't mind sitting at 40% DOD for a couple of days, but FLA/SLA would start to gag...

[Jens]

Remind me Jens;
The reason for wanting more power, was to be able to charge an upcoming Lithium bank as fast as possible? If so; i'd get the Lithium bank first; then worry about charging noise... The Lithium batteries wouldn't mind sitting at 40% DOD for a couple of days, but FLA/SLA would start to gag...

Yes, that is correct. I will be upgrading both charging and storage systems. I have to start somewhere and tossing a coin gave me my starting point Actually the current house batteries are in pretty good shape but take forever to charge because my alternator cuts down to somewhere below 20 amps pretty quickly. There is a good chance that a quicker charging system can get me to an acceptable power situation pretty quickly even if I start out without serpentine belts at half power output.

[mike90045]

What about looking at a 24V truck (or marine) alternator, and feeding that to a capacitor and a MPPT wind charge controller, to charge the batteries with?
The MPPT takes the "high" voltage and drops it down to battery charging voltage.  Morningstar and Midnight make a decent unit, that handles up to 60 amps. (but they are pricey $$)  They could be located in a "dry" area to reduce explosive situations (but they are for charging large, gassing battery banks and have no sparking relays inside)

[Cornelius]

My experience with 12V Lithium battery packs (LiFePO4) are, when given charge from a 'standard' 12V charger for FLA, they take whatever they can get, until they reach 95% SOC, then the internal bms ease up... So - maybe your alternator isn't too bad for that purpose...

I guess you wouldn't be able to 'try-before-buy', would you? That would have given you the best idea on what to do first...

You could borrow one from me, but i'm a little bit long away, i guess...

[Jens]

Thanks for the offer but in the great scheme of things the batteries will probably come fairly soon after the charging system is sorted out so I don't think it will make all that much of a difference as to what is upgraded first.

[Cornelius]

I've just re-read the first posts here; just to re-focus on what you really need, and that would be - More charging amp when you're living on board.
It's a sailboat, which means you're using it often when it's windy...

Have you considered a wind generator to supply your charging?
The wind almost always blows along the coast, and are usually nice and steady over water...  A windgenerator, like the AirBreeze, would give you a steady 5-10A in a good breeze.

[Jens]

I actually don't live on the boat and wind in our area can be very spotty. Right now we are having plenty of wind and a ghastly wind chill factor (-20 C) but for most of the fall up till now we had unusually light winds. Summer can be very frustrating in a sail boat over here.
I will eventually add some solar power but this is a ways down the list and only if it is needed after the alternator and batteries have been upgraded.
I have placed an order for a Balmar AT-200 alternator, a remote charge controller and a serpentine pulley system. The Balmar will be set up with a switch to de-rate when I need power to move the boat or at full power when I don't need a lot of power to move the boat. It should be the cat's meow and provide all the power needed (and then some). Add 400 to 600 Ahr lithium down the road and I will never want for electric power ever again!
It am looking forward to the first stage of the upgrade (alternator)!
I would like to thank everybody that chimed in on the discussion. You all helped to clear my mind and decide which way I was going to proceed on this upgrade!!!