Cogeneration in 1912

[quinnf]

Was reading through The Diesel Engine last night on Google Books http://books.google.com/books?id=2m1YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false and found something that will knock your socks off.  

30-something efficiency of the prime mover is pretty amazing considering how new the technology was at the time.  But with heat recovered from cooling water and exhaust totaling 82% overall efficiency, that's really phonomenal.  



Quinn

[SteveU.]

Very Good QuinnF
What is old is new again.
"Let NO BTU's Escape Free Un-Used!" (T-shirt)
Or, "Free the Carbons!" With white C's  running away in all directions on a grey background.
Regards
Steve Unruh

[mobile_bob]

a hundred years and we are back to where it all started, probably could go back a thousand  and find
some interesting cogen applications in use at that time... just not with electricity as the byproduct.

the gas company is currently replacing the feeder line behind my place, so i inquired as to the capacity of the meter here to my place

i am good up to 250kbtu/hr  which equates to probably more than enough to support a 20hp cogen
(off the top of my head)

bottom line?  as soon as i can get my dad out of the hospital and things settled down again, it looks like i will be digging a trench and running a branch to the shop for support of testing the unit i am working on.

i would be quite happy with 85% overall efficiency, and i am convinced that is an attainable goal.

considering we know how much electrical power we can harvest, and we can recover nearly all of the waste heat from the cooling system without monumental efforts using commonly available components... that leaves how best to recover the available exhaust heat.

it might well be possible using stainless steel components to recover a high percentage of the heat from the exhaust, it all depends on design and how best to deal with condensed exhaust byproducts should one want to wring the most btu's from the exhaust gasses.

the hope is natural gas as the predominate fuel might make this latter issue not much of a problem at all.

reading about the 100 yo efforts in cogeneration is quite fascinating in my opinion... 

Q: now that you have ties to the pacific nw,  check into the history of the tacoma waterfront and cogeneration back in the late 1800's...  talk about harvesting the whole pig, including the squeal!
they had the process very highly refined and my bet is the overall efficiency was knocking on 90% on any given day of the week.

bob g

[quinnf]

Yep, and all that only a decade after the technology was introduced to industry, long before the demise of the Age of Steam.  Heck, for 30 years after that, locomotives were still powered by steam, and airplanes mostly had four wings.  It shows to go you the people who designed those early engines had learned a thing or two from steam technology, and they weren't lacking in engineering know-how.  

Every generation has its rocket scientists.  Look at what DaVinci** was working on in the 13th Century!  It's just that with the passage of time the available technology changes, offering the brightest minds different challenges to work on.

q.

* A Sci-Fi author had it that Leonardo Da Vinci was, in fact, an alien who lived in an advanced civilization.  But he fell afoul of the political establishment and had to be done away with.  Rather than simply killing him, which was unthinkable on that enlightened world, the authorities made him up to look like a human and dumped him on 13th Century Earth, where, devoid of technology, he could live out his life without threatening the Powers that Be on his home world.  Looking at Leonardo's work, it seems like he was constantly trying to create technologies that we recognize as being common.  But lacking the materials and contributory technologies to make his inventions work, he was destined to fail, but fail brilliantly.

[oiler]

Why not use the simplest solution an istall a modern 105% efficient natural gas fired boiler??

85% was the standard 50 years ago.........

[LowGear]

105% efficien

Really?  105%?

Casey

[rl71459]

The hot water makes natural gas.

[rl71459]

and that spins the gas meter backwards!

[vdubnut62]

  boo hiss boo

[oiler]

http://www.viessmann.com/com/en/products/Gas-fired_condensing_boilers.html

Not that I would ever buy one. Still impressing though.

In most of norther Europe it is now illegal to install non condensing natural gas units. In Denmark it is even illegal to install non condensing oil fired units..........

[LowGear]

In Denmark it is even illegal to install non condensing oil fired units..........

Perhaps this is why their socialist system has such a crummy economy.   

Casey

[BruceM]

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-09-20/denmarks-economic-model-is-a-success

Seems Denmark is doing pretty well by many measures, despite being a country with little in the way of natural resources.  Imagine not having to worry about the cost of a health crisis in your family or for college education costs for your kids.  I do chafe at some of the nanny state policies like limiting liquor purchases, and of course they have the same problems with big corporation $ corrupting the democratic process.

[glort]

I do chafe at some of the nanny state policies like limiting liquor purchases

I wonder how many social problems that "Nanny state" policy has solved?
What a terrible thing! Trying to deter people from getting shitfaced and causing the inevitable mayhem that increasingly comes with it. I can think of no justifiable reason why people should be allowed to purchase copious amounts of alcohol at a time.  Wouldn't it be a tragedy to be out somewhere and run out of booze before you really lost control and have to sober up a bit before the night was out? What are these people thinking???

If thats the most nanny state thing they do, I can think of plenty worse in the US and OZ than that!

Pfft! Next thing you know they will be banning Cigarette advertising!   

[oiler]

Well tobacco ads were banned years ago But alcohol is readily available but sadly a bit expensive 

[LowGear]

Resistance is Futile!  (British accent please  fu-tile)
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!
Resistance is Futile!

Perfection is an illusion.  Nice stuff costs more.  It's like paying low wages in a Cadillac factory in a country that has no road tax and half the population can't drive. 

So how do we co-generate cold air?  (I realized I had started to define Saudi Arabia.) 

Casey