Help with my off grid set up

[Honda lee]

Hey all, I am new to this site but have been a member at listerengine.com for some time.
So far I have 18 230 watt sharp panels and two outback 3648 inverters with the 500 base AC/ dc breaker panels I also have the outback mx80 charge controller. I currently have 8ea 6. Volt 120amph batteries and 4ea  12 volt school bus batteries big suckers but don't know the amp hours on them. As far. As generators I have a listeroid 8/1 with a st10, a ashwamegh 24/2, a lister hr3 with a 40 kw Lima generator and a
Chanfa chi 195 a maccalte 9kw generator.
I know that I will need more batteries and a altanator.
My plan so far is to put the solar panels on a building about 100" from the house and wire panels for voltage higher than 48 volts, but I'm not sure weather I should put inverters in the same building as solar panels and generator or put inverters 100 ' away in the house the same question goes for the batteries?
I am also looking for advice on the best altanator . I hope to make the system as dummie proof as posable as to not destroy my batteries.
Also if I use the batteries I I have making two 48v banks do I have to use and charge them separately ?
Well this is probably enough questions to start with as you can tell I am new to the solar and batteries  so all info is helpful .
As far as loads go I don't really know yet it is just my wife and I  we have wood boiler for heat and very insulated 1200 sq' house, gas stove, gas dryer and normal other appliances ie flat screen TVs and so on we will need AC in July and aug.
Many thanks honda lee

[Carlb]

I would put the the inverters and batteries in the building that you have the solar panels on ( as long as you don't let them get too cold in the winter) then you can run 120/240 from that building to the house taking advantage of the higher voltage to use a smaller gauge wire.

If you put the inverters and batteries in the house 100' away you will have to run a much larger gauge wire from the panels to the inverters in the house.

[mobile_bob]

+1 on what Carl posted

the added advantage is having all the power crap in one building, separate from the occupied building makes things much safer and much more insurance man friendly.

it also allows you to do things that would not be allowed code wise because the building is non occupied.

bob g

[Honda lee]

This was also my thinking but wouldn't I have to run two circuits one from the inverters and the other for my bigger loads from the generator?
Or I could switch the source of power from inverters to generator when running?

[Honda lee]

My thought was to put everything in outbuilding,but at first I was thinking about putting inverters and batterie bank in main house so I did some circuits for dc. It would be easy enough to just wire that circuit to main AC panel .
Any suggestions on batterie charging/ using an alt ?

[LowGear]

My reading isn't so good.  You're talking about putting AC and DC circuits in the same electrical panel?

Casey

[mobile_bob]

not to sound like i am beating a drum, but oh well...

here goes

for battery charging ...

pound for pound, dollar for dollar, amp for amp the prestolite/leece neville 110-555jho is very hard to beat. For a lot of reasons not the least of which is overall efficiency.

it is a 12volt alternator but is well up to the task of 24 and 48volt system charging if that is what you have in mind.

there are other alternators that might do well, but to my experience none come close to all that the 555 has to offer.

also on the topic of the outbuilding housing the batteries, inverters, switchgear and providing the mounting for the solar panels.

you might also consider placing some of the appliances we often think of as being in the house.

things like washers and driers are convenient in the house, as well as deep freezes, but do they really need to be?  something to think about anyway, is some of these loads might be best served close to the source of power?  if for no other reason than not having to listen to them (washer and dryer) and do we really need to get into the chest freezer more than once or twice a week?

just kicking some thoughts out there.

providing room for a summer kitchen might be something to consider too, as would a fall/winter space for cleaning game or processing other tasty critters?  these things keep the heat out of the house during the summer months when you don't want it, and keep the big messes out of momma's kitchen in the fall/winter months?


bob g

[glort]

things like washers and driers are convenient in the house, as well as deep freezes, but do they really need to be?  something to think about anyway, is some of these loads might be best served close to the source of power?  if for no other reason than not having to listen to them (washer and dryer) a

If one put the laundry in the same building as the generator, It would be very easy to put a heat exchanger on the cooling tank for the engine and use the heat from the engine to supply hot water. With a suitably plumbed radiator ( and maybe an exhaust HE) the engine heat could also be ducted to the electric heating element of the dryer could be disconnected and just the electric motor run. Depending on the motor and load, It may even be possible to get more heat than the electric element normally provided and dry the clothes even faster!

Free hot water for the washing and free heat for the dryer.... and a nice warm laundry for the Mrs in winter.

That ought to help keep her on side!   

[mike90045]

It's not best practice to combine 2 different battery types in the same bank, so creating 2 separate 48v banks, and alternating weekly between them, might be good.  The school bus batteries are NOT deep cycle batteries, and will only give a dozen or so 50% cycles, and maybe 100, 20% cycles

The 8, 6V, 120ah batteries, are pretty small, and will not do too much more than give you a quiet nights sleep.

The 4KW PV array will quickly recharge either bank with full sun,  in fact, it's going to be real easy to overcharge the batteries with the 70A into 120 ah cells.

Neither battery bank is forecast to have a very long life.

Do you have any 240V loads ?

[Tom Reed]

+1 on mike's comments

[Honda lee]

Thanks for all the ideas. I did see that SAMs club had some 200ah  6v golf cart batteries for about $80. ea .any advice on the best batteries for the buck?
The answer about 220vac loads, yes I will need some air conditioning  in July and aug . I have radiant tubing in the walls and I was going to chill the water and see if I can keep cool with that but we also have high humidity so I think some AC will be needed.
Also I have two close driers one LP and one electric I figure I can use the electric when running generator
I have the outback 500 with 2ea 3648 inverters with mate they charge batteries when AC is applied  should I need a separate alt/charger?

[mike90045]

....
Also I have two close driers one LP and one electric I figure I can use the electric when running generator
I have the outback 500 with 2ea 3648 inverters with mate they charge batteries when AC is applied  should I need a separate alt/charger?

Generator running electric clothes dryer, not likely the best efficient method while you have propane.
What I do not know, if the dual inverters, will produce 240VAC or if you need a transformer with them.

As long as the generator stays "qualified" with the outbacks, they will charge your batteries, but there are limits
to the frequency and voltage - they want to see "grid quality" and you have to program them for relaxed specs for
generators.

Golf cart batteries are great learning batteries, as they are cheap to replace!

[BruceM]

200ah battery storage is really only 100ah at 50% DOD. With about 4000 of watts of PV charging???  Seems a gross mismatch.  Time to estimate your intended daily/night time loads and figure out what battery capacity you need to keep within 25-50% DOD.