Need some help from our European brothers or sisters

[Lloyd]

I say "Need some help from our European brothers or sisters" only because the Bosch Regulators for a Dynamos were hardly ever used in the states.

So whom I am looking for is most likely an Heavy Truck/Bus Mechanic from the 50's and 60's and either has a good memory, or an old repair manual. For Bosch Dynamos and Regulators.

The boat I rewired stem to stern, the owner decided he wants it all original. Which meant removing the alternators and replacing with new old stock dynamos and regulators.

The start circuit is a pair of 24 volt Delco now as originally installed, rebuilt gennies and new regulators, I flashed the fields (I Circuit, flashed the same as A Circuits, just has an Isolated Ground) and both are charging.

The House bank circuit now as originally installed a pair of 12 volt Bosch 80 amp gennies, one old regulator and one new old stock. I flashed the field (B Circuit) which also has an isolated ground....no charge to the bats.

Starboard side which has the original regulator is putting out 14.5 volt at the gennie, but it does not pass through the regulator to battery, that means the  cut out relay needs some adjusting...but I have no specks.

The Port side put out 16 volts when I full field pole shoes bypassing the regulator, which means the point on the field coil needs some adjusting, but just as the Starboard side the cut out relay does not pass gen voltage/current through to the bats.

So I need a manual to set the point gaps...other wise I'm just taking a shot in the dark, and if the regulators get fried there is no replacing them.

I am attaching pics below.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Lloyd


Restoration of a 1964 15 meter Italian built Bagietto

Regulator Re-Install....sorry the picture seems to vibrate....it must be the vibrating coils in the regulators

12 volt 80 amp Bosch Dynamos

One of the original toasted regulators

Same as above different view

same as above different view

Pic of the charge circuit

[mobile_bob]

the owner has a nice boat, has a ton of money in it by most standards, you have rewired it stem to stern, and now he wants an antiquated
charging system installed?

is this boat a harbor queen?  if so i suppose he can have whatever he wants,

on the other hand if he wants to put out to sea?  and trust the antique system with his life?

don't make sense to me at all.

but then again it ain't my boat or my money, and it damn sure ain't gonna be my life either.

good luck Lloyd, you are a far better man than i am.  at least a far more understanding a patient man than me.



bob g

[Lloyd]

the owner has a nice boat, has a ton of money in it by most standards, you have rewired it stem to stern, and now he wants an antiquated
charging system installed?

is this boat a harbor queen?  if so i suppose he can have whatever he wants,

on the other hand if he wants to put out to sea?  and trust the antique system with his life?

don't make sense to me at all.

but then again it ain't my boat or my money, and it damn sure ain't gonna be my life either.

good luck Lloyd, you are a far better man than i am.  at least a far more understanding a patient man than me.



bob g

Hi bob,

Nice to hear from you. I think not better or more patient. It's a customer, and you know the old saying the customer's always right.

Believe me when I started this job, I counseled the customer on the value of alts over gens...but to no avail. This is the boat that has twin 8-71 detroits about 450hp.

When I took on the job it had two 555 LN alts 12 volt, it been converted to 12 volt start. So one of the first jobs was to remove the 12 volt super starters, and replace with new 24 volt starters, which in my mind was a good thing. Then all new bats for the start circuit, and resource the factory original 24 dynamos and mounts. Which meant demoing the 555LN's, while Mr. Customer was in Italy, when he returned he showed up with 2 NOS 12 volt 80 Bosch Dynamos, and 1 NOS Regulator, and a used regulator.

I had originally believed that after the change to the 24 volt start circuit dynamos(which wasn't entirely bad) that I would just mount the 555LN's in place of the Bosch stuff(I never believed for a moment that he would find the 12 volt Bosch stuff).

So now I had to come up wit a resilient power design to protect the 12 v Bosch stuff(so I decided i should also protect the 24 v circuit), with no manuals nor being able to find anything about them online. I dismantled one of the gens, and the old burned up regulator, which gave me enough information on how to wire em up.

They are internally grounded(type B circuit), which means I could self-excite by the dash light. So I set up the dummy light off the key fused w/ a parallel circuit to the DPDT relay you see in the pictures, above the regulators. The DPDT breaks the field circuit. This gives me a fail safe upon fault in the self excite/field circuit. Then if you look close in the pictures, I also set up a fail-safe for the armature circuit. The 4 big red wires that drop down the middle of the relays, and regulators appear to terminate on a bus bar. But it is isolated terminal fuses, one for each armature of the regulators.

The gen circuit while excited off the key, can never blow the ignition circuit (start/stop) on a diesel. Plus it adds some protection to the V-regs. Based on the lack of data available if the regs burn up,  then the NOS Bosch gens will be boat anchors.

These Bosch gens were on all the heavy duty trucks and buses through-out Europe until the 70's, so I am hopping that one of our European guys will say hay I have your manuals.

Lloyd

[Thob]

Just how "original" does it have to be?  Any chance the owner would go for a modern regulator, placed inside the case the of the original regulators, so the outside looks original?  Would a modern regulator even fit inside the case?

I have a old style relay type regulator and generator on an old tractor.  I've filed the points, adjusted, fiddled with it, and managed to get it to work - for a while.  Then it's mess with it again.  I finally gave up and just use an regular battery charger on it instead.  Not an option for you - but just to add to what mobile_bob said: these things are NOT reliable!

[LowGear]

Gorgeous boat. 

One of the problems with bull headed people is that they believe that they're successes are a result of that bull headedness rather than an occasional "in spite of" reality.  I recently had an electrician tell me "If you'd get out of my way I might be able to get something done!"  How rude to tell someone the direct truth to their face.

Casey

[Frank S]

 the size and capacity my be different but every Volkswagen made up until 1970 had Bosh regulators on them
Contact the boys at the ATHS (American Truck Historical Society) discussion forums some of the older Trucks used bosh & lucaus  instead of Delco as well. There are several guys who have lots of knowledge about these things I will try to look through the 100s of gigs of stored data that I compiled for them and see if I can locate what you need in some of my stowed away hard drives. 

[Ronmar]

Nice boat, kind of reminds me of the SS Minnow:)

[Cornelius]

Those generators works much the same way the old Dynastarters do, so maybe some help can be gotten from those?

http://isettaofsc.homestead.com/files/bosch_regulators.pdf
http://isettaofsc.homestead.com/files/dynastart.pdf

It is my impression that those contact points are not to be fiddled with, and i find very little info on how to do just that. (Except 'not for the homeowner to do'... )

[Lloyd]

I have an update:


I now have both regs and gens working. Though trial and error and some number of fuses, I was able to establish a cut-in/out with the current regulator. They now cut in when the gennies hit something north of 12.9 volts and out when they hit 12.2 volts.

The current out regulates as the bats reach full charge down to 13.5, and 14.6 during bulk charge.

So after some epifianies, from days gone buy, I think we have working gen/regs that are willing to go to sea.

We'll see.

But I'm willing to put my stamp on em for now.

Lloyd