Does this engine exist?

[SteveU.]

Hey thanks for the reply Mr JLB
Again you add good useable info with your hand built governor linkage spring details. Factory unit linkages use these much and I'd never though about making my own.
You will fit in fine here as a contributing asset. No worry about the pictures, not all of us are pixilated. "Give me a thousand words and I'll paint a beautiful picture in your mind". You are doing very well with far less words.
I was involved with woodgas converting a 999 CC Generac/Chinese aircooled V-twin that used same four wire stepper motor system. Very, very noisy set up as air cooled 17.5 kW direct drive 3600 RPM.
Governing worked very well and fast. Generac service reputation however was always a risk in my mind.
Your system practicality reminds me of a fellow over on the old Lister Engine Forum who had taken a Dodge slant 6 with a mechanical belt governor added and coupled it up to a 20? 30? kW four pole gen head and then fueled his engine off of street/city (methane) gas. He laughed at all of the guys he felt had it backwards. You START with your fuel source, THEN pick an available engine that could fuel with it. I back-asswards this myself for a time too.
May I export your system information over onto a couple of the woodgas groups with a home power interest?
As BioH. says the really nice factory methane setup  Kubota 3 cyclinder DG972's at a few grand are out of many fellows price ability.
Regards
Steve Unruh

[bergmanj]

SteveU,

Please feel free to "spread the word" as you see fit.  My personal philosophy is that that's what these forums are for.

Your comments about woodgas are interesting to me in this conversation because I specifically chose a spark-ignited engine potentially for that very use if (when???) fossil fuels become prohibitively expensive (diesel won't do any good then).

I've been around a bunch of these related forums for years; but, just joined this one.

Spouse and I are totally "off-grid" (though still running too much propane with backup generator!), and slowly moving toward more independence from fossil fuels.

My Geo Metro setup hasn't been used for a while now, as I ran-into a NOS Kohler commercial water-cooled unit for a real steal (under $1K for a unit 10Kw unit with 0.7 hrs on it!).  Absolutely couldn't pass that one up as it also has the "wet" exhaust manifold which will help in recovering even more heat.

If I get a chance, I'll try to I. D. the Generac governor electronics; I bought it from a distributor our of Milwaukee WI - though, I don't remember their name now.

Regards,   JLB

[SteveU.]

Hmmm. Well if you can, do post up that Generac control info when you can. Fella's here have posted they have bought these and now trying to get them to work.
On woodgas fueling the Good News it can be made to work. ~80% if what I've know and experienced I've put up here in the mid home page: Fuels/Alternatives  section -> Methane, Producer Gas, Propane, etc. board -> then mostly on the "lets build a small gasifier" topic thread.
The other ~20% I've known and experienced is now locked behind others copyrights, patents protected walls. None of which is DYI capable or safe anyhow. ?? You want to be 200 bar compressing a combustible composite gas and then running it by a heated catalyst!? Not me anymore either! I've had to carry the name of Boom-Boom.
Also see the bottom of Home page here: Dealer Registry -> Company/Location/Products for Sale -> then the "True Small CHP Woodgas Sysytems Now in Production". Load up the VictoryGasWorks  site and there is still even a picture of me pawing over the first Kubota we used. These systems now evolved far past DYI capability.
The Bad News about woodgas is in here, "Woodgas! Different every Day and Hour of the day!" Woodgas ain't or ever going to be standardized commercial propane or methane for ease of walk-a-way useage and post operation maintenance required.
This is evident in the "Whole town powered by woodgas" topic that was put up in the Producer Gas section. True today 50 years later also. Vehicle guys get around some of this with an on board operator every operating hour. It CAN be compensated for with a bunch of sensor feedback programmed electronic controls. See the work and follow the links jimmason and K_jab (Ken Boak) have put up on the Producer Gas Board.
So I personally came to a Y in the road winter of 2010/11 after hundreds of hours developing for AC. Quit trying to Nazi lock step produce synchronous AC. Got real and then promoted DC generate and just let the RPM float with load anf fuel gas batch burn quality changes and then have your electronics as off the shelf inverter/chargers. I yabbed about all of that on the Victory Commercial system thread here. This philosophy was in the previous Hottwatt and the current 2012 units there. But now as $$,$$$ units not DYI capable of emulating anymore. Individual hearth sales for their own engine/generator support has been hundreds more hours. Another Y. I have now personally bowed out of that too.

So Mr JLB as an old man now with only so much sand left in the life clock I'll PM you some site links to fellows who are rural and Offgrid working to fuel with their own on-site grown woods fuels also. An old Y in my road - I have chose to live Rural and to the fellows I now enjoy helping all other fuel stocks unless you are growing them yourself are all Urban products even negative energy pellets.

Ha! Ha! Hope I did not hijack too much Mr BioH. I will accept any moderating needed.

Regards
SteveU.

[bergmanj]

Folks,

I did a little research into my back-files, and found the Generac governor part number: 098647.

Hookup information is found in Manual P/N 79699, pp16, Figure 20.

I hope this helps someone.

Regards,   JLB

[AdeV]

I want a natural gas engine that serves no other purpose than to be a boiler. The engine will have a generator attached but the electricity is a "waste" byproduct, the engine would only be run when there is a demand for heat.

Other than the general man-like for an engine, if it's just a boiler that generates electricity you want, then you should look into this sort of thing: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/03/new-baxi-boiler-creates-free-electricity-206586/

That's obviously a UK link, but I'm sure you can get stuff like that stateside as well.

See also: http://www.bluegen.info/

[bergmanj]

AdeV

The OP wanted something in the $2,000.00 or under range.

Regards,   JLB

[BioHazard]

Folks,

I did a little research into my back-files, and found the Generac governor part number: 098647.

Hookup information is found in Manual P/N 79699, pp16, Figure 20.

I hope this helps someone.

Regards,   JLB

Just in case anyone is wondering, I dug up some more info.

The Generac governor can be found here for about $150:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=generac+098647&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

The stepper motor can be had for about $120
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=generac+098290&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

and the manual can be found here:
http://www.generac.com/PublicPDFs/79699.pdf

Looks like an interesting option.

[bergmanj]

Biohazard,

Please note that I used a free stepper motor out of an old printer - it's a standard 4-wire 12 volt, and works just fine with the Generac electronic governor.  It's body is roughtly a 2" cube in size.  I could have gone smaller, but this is what was at-hand.

Most throttle plates are "neutral" mounted on the shaft (that is, the air-stream through the carburetor presents no biased torque to overcome; so, it usually takes only a very minimum-size motor to control it (if the throttle-shaft bearings / bushings are in reasonable condition.

Regards,   JLB

[BioHazard]

Other than the general man-like for an engine, if it's just a boiler that generates electricity you want, then you should look into this sort of thing: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/03/new-baxi-boiler-creates-free-electricity-206586/

That's obviously a UK link, but I'm sure you can get stuff like that stateside as well.

See also: http://www.bluegen.info/

Me want engine. Vroom vroom. Daddy has some testosterone to burn off.  

Those are intesting units you posted, how do they generate electricity? It doesn't appear to be engine driven? I haven't seen anything like that in the sates.

What I really want is a generator that can deliver at least 3kw from a generator head and another 3kw in DC power. The DC power woud be part of a solar system, the 3kw is what it takes to run the lights in my shop. That way I can switch just the lights back and fourth between gen power easily without disturbing the entire main breaker.

Also for shop use I'd like to hook an air compressor up directly to the engine.

[BioHazard]

and add an LPG (propane) / Natural Gas fuel adapter (for those fuels  ~$70.00). 

Where did you find such a thing for $70? Most kits I've seen for small engines are $200+ and they only go up from there...

[bergmanj]

Bio,

I was pricing a fuel block only, not the complete kit.  Most of "us" folks usually have access to parts and pieces, and don't need the full kit.  If an CCK generator end is obtained, my assumption would be that it's (probably "blown") engine and attached carburetor would also be available in most cases; and, most of those were already setup in RV's for LP; so, they may also have the fuel system available ( low-pressure regulator, demand regulator, fuel block, etc.  Then, again, maybe I'm assuming too much here.

US Carb's has the full kit for around $170.00, as you say.

Actually, with some precise drilling and a "fab'd" outlet with a control valve, anybody can actually make a "homemade" conversion to most existing carburetors.

Regards,  JLB

[bergmanj]

Bio,

Just "bumping", as I'm curious as to any futher progress with your query here.

Regards,   JLB

[artificer]

Me want engine. Vroom vroom. Daddy has some testosterone to burn off.  

Those are intesting units you posted, how do they generate electricity? It doesn't appear to be engine driven? I haven't seen anything like that in the sates.

What I really want is a generator that can deliver at least 3kw from a generator head and another 3kw in DC power. The DC power would be part of a solar system, the 3kw is what it takes to run the lights in my shop. That way I can switch just the lights back and fourth between gen power easily without disturbing the entire main breaker.

Also for shop use I'd like to hook an air compressor up directly to the engine.

Since the thread is bumped...

The Baxi is just a boiler with a Stirling engine generating electricity.  The BlueGen uses a high temp fuel cell to produce electricity, and you get heat off of it.

Michael

[BioHazard]

Bio,

Just "bumping", as I'm curious as to any futher progress with your query here.

Regards,   JLB

I found a good running chevy 250 inline six for a dollar...I'm thinking about using that as my "boiler". Bigger than I need but the byproduct is heat so.....

I definately want the Generac electronic governor that you posted - that really opens up a whole lot of possible engines.

[bergmanj]

Bio,

F. Y. I: There is a very specific reason I went for the Geo 3-cyl: Less total cylinders means less "parasitic" friction internally (plus it has a "low-friction" piston-ring design).  A lot of folks don't realize that this particular issue can make a very huge difference in the effective fuel "efficiency", as with less internal friction, there is more power available for external use, while using the same amount of fuel.  Put another way, it will use less fuel for the same amount of external power needed.  This can be upwards of 30% difference for the same application!

Regards,   JLB