More info, please...

[cognos]

In this section, I'd be interested in seeing members post what they are doing with alternative fuels - success stories, supplies, recipes, washing techniques, problems, etc...
I *should* be able to help with techniques, as they relate to industry standards and procedures, and I hope this will be of interest and use to some.

[rl71459]

I continue to use rug thinned industrial lube/hydraulic oil in my MBZ 190D. I'm in my second
year now. No conversion to the car to date.

Rob

[prof.blink]

hello all, just reading through and happened across the phrase 'rug thinned'. not the 1st time seeing this on this or the old forum. blink

[prof.blink]

thanks jens, i thought it might be refering to stale gas. a friend uses stale gas from the marinas to cut waste crankcase oil. that combo does work well in detroit powered welders that run all day under mixed loads. it will glue up a rotary pump in short order after a week or so of sitting with the stale mix left in the pump. blink

[Rom]

Thought I would throw in 2 cents...

In the middle of last year while having a rum and coke on another slow day, I had it all dawn on me, living out here with a government run power company with a union, that you couldnt never trust the grid. Constant brownouts and surges, boats draggin anchors and damaging transmisson cables to the isles n such. Well we have always had a generator, whether a lil 5500 BnS screamer, the westerbeake 10kw, or the FG Wilson that was 60kw. The thing that dawned on me, was the slow speed of a Lister CS series, and the mountains of waste engine oil we have laying around here. Theres no facility to take it to, so its usually stored until the container rots or just poured into the ground. In my defiance to stick it to the man, I said I could burn WMO for maybe 6-8 hours a day and lower my bills slowly, aswell as have a sensible backup generator. Grand dreams, doesnt work like that yet, but still.

I started collecting veg oil from the 2 resturants on the isle, and put out a couple 55 gal drums to collect oil, which has caused some stress, for the Lister is not quite ready for the prime time, and work has started to pickup again so the Lister has been moved to the back burner. The frame isnt rugged enough for that 16/2 and I have decided to copy the SoM welded base and modify for the twin.

Anyway, when I originally designed my cleaning system, I had a spare power steering pump, and I let that influence my centrifuge choice(first mistake). I wanted to set it and forget it with the cleaning, which, looking back, doesnt work that way with a high pressure centrifuge like the DieselCraft. I built a jerry rig bracket from the cylinder block to over the top of the flywheel, and belted the power steering pump to that flywheel. Plumbed it all together rather crudely with 2x 8 inch exchangers around the exhausts. They were made from 3/8 copper pipe. I put 5 gallons of engine oil into the holding tank, and started it all up. Ran for about an hour and got to about 190 degree on the oil and everything was great. The rotor of the dieselcraft had about a 1/4 inch of carbon n crap all along the wall.

Next day, fired up for round 2, and before I got out of the room, a line blew off on of the exchangers. Oil everywhere. Anyways thats what I get for being cheap. I removed one exchanger and modified the plumbing a bit, but the trust has already been broken. I just dont feel comfortable with the system as it is. Simple centrifuge is on its way.

Years ago, my dad taught me to go for the expensive first, beating round the bush to get the same job done doesnt work. I decided, instead of 1500$ for a centrifuge, 250 for a dieselcraft was the better choice. So now instead of 1500$ spent, I'm at 1750$... lol.

I did find 2 litres of svo that was way too old for cooking that i threw into the tank and shook it up, engine loved it, not a complaint.

I should have the centrifuge in a week or 2, and will post on the cleaning and such at that time!

[cognos]

It's my opinion that with waste motor oil, a home user is going to do best with trying to filter the stuff to remove what is most detrimental to the engine, yes?

So - first priority is water and particulate removal.

Water and solids - inorganic and organic contaminants - respond to three things - the 3 T's - Time, Temperature, and Treatment.

Time - self explanatory. The longer the stuff settles, is heated, or is treated, the more successful will be your removal of water or suspended particulate contaminants. Just leaving the stuff in a container for a period of time, water and particulates will settle to the bottom of the container.

Temperature - the higher the temperature you treat at, the more crap will be successfully removed. Suspended particulates drop out quicker, water settles out, or is evaporated off or absorbed by filters more easily, for instance. Plus, the WMO is easier to pump.

Treatment - here's where there's plenty of things to try. Treatment can involve mechanical treatment - things such as filtration by stationary media like an oil filter, or a centrifuge. There can even be chemical filtration, like an activated charcoal filter or an anion/cation filter, or an absorbtion filter to grab the water - salt filters are used to dry diesel at a refinery.

Additives can assist in this process, making things happen more quickly or to a greater extent.

Changing the chemical character of the WMO is going to be a lot more difficult, and will involve some chemistry.

There are things in waste motor oil that will not be removed by mechanical filtration.

Contaminants that raise or lower the pH of the oil come to mind. I can't imagine a very high or very low pH is going to be good for your engine. So measure it, and correct it if you can with an acid or a base. Of course, these things will have to be water-based, and mixed well with your fuel - then the neutralized reaction products will have to be removed - TTT... So it's easy to say, but may be impossible to do in a timely of cost-effective manner.

Spent additives in the WMO may cause trouble... some additives are metallic salts, and I can guess that these chemicals that were not designed to be combusted may cause maintenance issues for your engine.
There's also corrosion inhibitors - nitrosamines - and detergents/dispersants.
Dispersants can work against you in a poorly-designed filtration effort system... their job is to help the oil keep crap in suspension.
Nitrosamines form black gums when exposed to high temperatures, and stick very well to metals... I've seen them form matrixes with combustion by-products (like carbon) that are as hard as concrete - and just as hard to remove...
Detergents are - often - mostly linear alky-benzane sulfonates - and can oxidixe at high temperature in the presence of water to acids. I can see this causing problems in exhaust systems, particularly those with heat exchangers that cause the exhaust outlet temp to drop below 212°F...

I can only say I have read of some pretty unscientific methods used by DIYers to change the chemical nature of WMO fuel. Use any method with caution, and try to have a thorough understanding of the process and it's intended results first... or you may end up with a 55 gallon barrel of smelly black soap... or a dangerous barrel of toxic waste that could ruin an engine.

Just my opinion.

[Rom]

All very valid points indeed.

I have been reading in other places, mostly Ford truck forums for some reason. Some have it working great, and other have major problems with it.

I remember reading the story of Mr Bodell, and how he runs his listeroid on wmo, maybe if he's still lurking, he can pass on his secrets!