Suggestions for micro hydro project...

[BioHazard]

I've had my shop for more than 2 years now and I just recently found the creek out back. I knew there was a little trickle there, but to my surprise after I cleared a bunch of brush there was a sizeable spring fed creek with a long quick drop off.

My best guestimate for flow is about 250 GPM +/- 500.  I tested this by building a mud dam with a 4" pipe in the center for the water to flow, the creek filled the pipe up completely plus some extra leakage. I can capture the water and send it through a pipe with about a 10 foot head.

Initially I didn't think this creek would be big enough for a hydro project but a few calculators online claim I should be able to get around 200 watts continuous, which adds up to over 150kwh/month.

I know next to nothing about hydro power. Water makes things spin and electricity comes out. It's magic. 

From my googling it seems a "pelton wheel" is the most common method for capturing the force of the water. I also know there is a whole lot of BS and false claims about the output of this kind of stuff, much like the available small wind turbines. Is this one of the best methods to capture the power of the creek?

Assuming I can get a shaft to turn, what would be the best way to generate electricity for grid tie? At 200 watts it will probably never spin the meter backwards. Should I try to spin an induction motor/generator, or make DC and use an inverter?

Who here has or is working on a hydro projec? Any info any/or pictures you would like to share would be fantastic. Just thinking outloud here...

[KeithO]

10 ft head won't be enough for a pelton.
Try googling "propeller in pipe hydro" or kaplan or Michell Banki

Powerpal or Niade turbines would seem to be suitable ,
Don't know much about grid tied though.

Get your feet wet and have fun

[billswan]

I've had my shop for more than 2 years now and I just recently found the creek out back. I knew there was a little trickle there, but to my surprise after I cleared a bunch of brush there was a sizeable spring fed creek with a long quick drop off.

Be careful don't clear to much if the government man finds out what you are doing he might think he has something to say about what you do on your own land.

Billswan

[BioHazard]

Be careful don't clear to much if the government man finds out what you are doing he might think he has something to say about what you do on your own land.

That's the best part, it took me two years to get in there and the trail is still hard to find. Up at the top I'm in a normal industrial area and then down below it's like I'm in the middle of nowhere. 

We call this "shit creek" because about a half mile away it fills the city sewage lagoons, and doesn't technically have a name that I know of. As far as I know the city considers it drainage and not really a creek...

[sailawayrb]

Sounds like you have low head and low flow rate situation, which might be problematic.

Here's one of my favorite sites for seeing the most current commercially available hydroelectric turbine generators:

http://nooutage.com/hydroele.htm

http://nooutage.com/HydroElGen.htm#Hydroelectric Turbine Generators

If you have 2-10 feet of head and 10-1000 GPM flow rate (according to Nooutage), the LH1000 might be a good option to consider:

http://www.microhydropower.com/Low%20Head.htm

http://www.microhydropower.com/LH1000%20POWER%20OUTPUT%20CHART.pdf

http://nooutage.com/lh1000.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4teOp0YYmwY

A Banki cross flow turbine is a great option when you have low head but have high flow rate.  It is also a great DIY project if you have ability to obtain and lengthwise cut large diameter SS pipe from which to form turbine blades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-flow_turbine

Bob B.

[BioHazard]

I'm feeling a little more confident about 250 gallons/minute at this point after looking at it more closely, though it will probably shrink down by late summer and more than double in the winter. I'm thinking about building a larger dam and letting the ravine fill up like a reservoir during the night, and make power only (mostly) during peak hours of the day, just like the big boys...

[BioHazard]

Well, I guess I've still got a lot of clearing on my creek to do before I can figure out how much head I can get. I might be able to get as much as 25 feet if I change my location. It drops off really fast, that's why it has been so hard to access, it's really quite a trek to get in there...

According to this calculator:
http://www.nooutage.com/hydroele.htm
I should be able to pull over 400kwh/month with a 25' head! Add a bit of solar and wind turbines and I could even go off grid!

I can't believe how nice this creek is that has been hiding back there all this time!

[sailawayrb]

...and since you live in OR BioHazard, you can do it legally and properly:

http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/Hydro/Hydro_index.shtml

In addition to hydro power, we all want plenty of steelhead and salmon on our grills.  Now that the two lower dams on Rogue River have been removed (last year), we are expecting good fishing to become great fishing in our creeks.

I expect to have our irrigation system hydro ram pump that doesn't require any electricity up and running in a couple weeks.  The designing, building, clearing, trenching, concrete work and pipe laying has been my part-time job for the past 18 months...first had to get a riparian landscape plan approved...so I fully appreciate what you are getting into...

Bob B.

[BioHazard]

LOL, I was just down there looking at the missing dams on the rogue about 2 weeks ago.   Very interesting to see, some of those people with docks are PISSED....

That sure is a nice creek you've got there, I have yet to find a single living thing in mine besides algea. I finally got word on what this "thing" is from the city, it's officially a "drainage ditch". I even found a map of all the steet/parking lot drains that empty into it. I guess I shouldn't drink the water...

BTW - I've been looking a bit at those ram pumps, very cool! How much rise/flow do you expect out of yours? It currently takes me 1500 watts to pump irrigation water from the creek...

[sailawayrb]

I actually have two creeks.  The one to the right is my low head (8 feet), low flow (1200 GPM) creek that I have domestic and irrigation water rights and where the hydro ram will feed.  The one to below left that this first creek flows into is my low head (14 feet), high flow (65,000 GPM) fishing creek that will be used for hydroelectric (6 THP via Banki cross flow turbine to produce about 3 KW 3-phase wild AC).

If my calculations are correct and design works as intended, my hydro ram (photo attached) should pump 900 GPD (0.625 GPM) 24 feet uphill into our cistern.  Since hydro rams don't use electric and I expect this design to run 365/24/7 for decades with minimal (if any) required maintenance, the only thing that really limits one's water supply capacity and pressure is size and elevation of one's cistern.  Hydro ram pumps can pump approximately 10% of the water you feed them 10 times higher than the available head (e.g., if one provides a hydro ram pump with 5 feet of head and 10 GPM, one can pump 1 GPM 50 feet uphill).  Probably about as close to perpetual motion and zero maintenance as one can expect to achieve, but of course these pumps are really only just taking advantage of the actual water kinetic energy being fed to them to move a small percentage of this water uphill using a water hammer effect.

Interesting theory...the Great Pyramid was used as a giant hydro ram pump to irrigate higher elevations of the Nile valley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfncpRxemKI

Bob B.

[BioHazard]

Wow, your "small" creek is 1200 GPM.  I'm hoping I can use a couple of cheap 6hp chinese water pumps to redirect my creek while I build a more permanent dam.

So you're saying with an 8' head and 250 GPM I should be able to make a hydro-ram pump capable of 25 GPM and 80 feet of head?! That's amazing!

I was thinking about trying to make some sort of "water motor" to power a standard water pump, but that sounds inefficient and expensive....

[sailawayrb]

Like everything, there are limitations in what one can achieve (largely driven by $$$ one is willing to spend) and there are design parameters one has to adhere to in order to get good results.  Here's a link that contains info on how they operate and how one can build a basic hydro pump:

http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/equip/ram.htm

Like most things I tend to get involved with, I went well beyond basic with mine with the goal of achieving zero maintenance.  I expect it will still be pumping long after my heart stops pumping. 

Bob B.

[mike90045]

Awesome, so good I had to copy that site, shame if it ever went away.

Here's a link that contains info on how they operate and how one can build a basic hydro pump:

http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/equip/ram.htm

[BioHazard]

Looks like the water level is going down for the summer. Here's the full flow coming out of a 4" pipe. I'm going to make a concrete dam behind the mud one here and use this area as a place to collect water for irrigation and hopefully with a small ram pump. I'll need to go a bit higher up the creek to tap for electricity. Bob's creek makes mine look pathetic.  





(yes, I normally do my outdoor work around midnight!)

For right now I think I'm going to concentrate on pumping water without electricity for both irrigation and cooling, before I get into the electrical generator. I need to get it about 40' up to where I can use it....

[sailawayrb]

Some photos/videos of the operating hydro ram pump using 7 feet of head to pump 580 gallons/day 18 feet uphill into a storage tank for irrigation/fire suppression.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU5d69Vgcv4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8cXX_gpEuQ

Bob B.