1996 Central Boiler Model CL 17SB Wood Fired Boiler

[WStayton]

Hi, Guys!

  Again I'm posting in this section because it is closest (not very!) to what I'm posting about . . .

  In keeping with the advice given here (Yup, sometimes I DO listen!  <grin>), I'm looking at commercial wood fired boilers.

  I have found, near me, a 1996 Central Boiler Model  CL 17SB wood fired boiler that is for sale with an asking price of $2,500.

  It takes 36" wood and is reported to have used 12 face cord (presumed to be 36") of wood per season to heat a 2,000 sq ft home.  Of course nothing was said about amount of insulation on the home.

  Owner/seller says he is giving it up because he is "too old to deal with wood anymore!"

  Anybody know anything about these units?  Anything I should look for/at when I go look at it, this week?

  I am a little "twitchy" about:

    1)  The fact that it is, and has been in service for 15/16 years.

    2)   The asking price of $2,500 - seems kinda high, to me.

    3)   The stated reason for giving up wood heat - I'm not sure how old the owner is, but he runs a medium sized machine shop for a living, so he's not sitting behind a desk!

    4)  Central Boiler has lots of complaints on the web and not so many kudo's,

  So, on balance, if this looks okay, i.e., no leaks down the side, etc., is this something I should be interested in?  And, is the asking price reasonable?

  I should add. from the three pictures in the ad, it is bright and shiney and new looking - at least what I can see in the pix.

  So, whadda ya think?  Should I bring my own vaseline? <grin>

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[WStayton]

First:  A small "fix" or two:

1) I had a brain pffft and mistyped the square footage of the heated dwelling - it is 3,000 sq-ft NOT 2,000 sq-ft as originally typed/stated, and that is here, in the southern tier of NY where the winters are relatively cold and fairly long.

2)  I had another email from the present owner who said that his wood length was "random" but mostly 16" to 18", so the wood consumption is not as bad as I originally thought.

Jens:

  There are not now any regulations in NY as to the installation of used equipment - external furnaces only came under regulation for new units in the last year or so.  I am pretty sure that your fears of reguilation are well founded, however, if the past performance of the NY State Thieves (read: government) is anything to judge by!  That's one of the reasons that I am scurrying to get things done before the legislative s%!t hits the fan!

  I was also put off by the age of the unit - thinking that if it had been used for 15 years as the owner alledges, it HAS to have some age/use related issues, no?

  As to price, it sounded high to me but I'm cheap, so that isn't necessarily a good measure!!!  It is good to have somebody else think about it the same way I did - if for no other reason but to assure me that I wasn't/am-not crazy . . yet!  <grin>

  I still intend to go take a look at it, if for no other reason than to broaden my exposure to Outdoor Furnaces!

  Thanx for the input!

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[vdubnut62]

From what I've seen and read Central Boiler units are pretty inefficient, but with no hands on experience, I can't say positively.
Ron

[WStayton]

Hi, guys!

  It sounds more and more like the highest and best use of this unit, from my perspective, is to teach me what not to buy!  <grin>

  As previously stated, I will take a gander, just see if anything can be learned by examination and talking to the owner - who seems more and more like a snake oil salesman!  But, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and take a look and then write it off as a learning experience.

  Thanx for the input and (maybe!) keeping me from doing something stupid!

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[WStayton]

Hi Guys!

Report on physical inspection:

  I went and applied the US standard eyeballs to the stove/furnace in question and can report:

1)  The reason that it looked so good in photos was that it had, in my opinion, undergone an extensive touch-up paint job in the recent past, though the present owner swears that it has NEVER been painted anywhere, anytime.

2) There was slight (ok, maybe VERY slight would be better) evidence of leakage around the bottom of the unit where the center joins to the rear of the unit.  I was rainy and wet and I didn't really want to get down and crawl around on the ground to get a real good look, but it looked to me like it had been leaking slightly - Owner says no leaks, no, how, no way, no time . . .

3)  When asked if the price wasn't a little high, he replied that he had paid in excess of $20,000 for it originally.  When I pointed out to him that 15 year old Cadillacs that cost more than $20,000 didn't command $2,500 he was very quiet and didn't offer further comment as to price.  As an aside, I am not so sure that it cost more than $20,000 fifteen years ago, but not knowing, I, for a change, kept my mouth closed!  <grin>

4)  I had asked, since he was the original owner, since new, to see anything that he had paper-work wise that came with the unit.  He said that he had looked but nothing remained of the original invoice/owners-manul/etc. that he was able to "lay his hands on".

5) For someone who is "getting out of wood heat" he sure had a bunch of wood piled around, and a lot of it looked to me to be recently cut - I probably should have asked him how much he wanted for his wood stockpile, since he was getting out of wood heat, but like many of my better ideas, this one came while I was on my way home and too late to do anything about it.

6)   When I tried to email him. later, to tell him that I definately wasn't interested, I discovered that his email provider would no longer accept my messages . . . I did have to overcome this initially by sending an email telling him/it who I was and what I wanted before it would forward my email messages so this MAY be just a "relapse" of that system, but . . .

7)  My conclusion:  There is some sort of problem with this unit and he is trying to dump the unit on an unsuspecting bystander before he buys the replacement.  Not proven, conclusively, but my strong suspicion!

  Thanx guys, for holding my hand - I don't think I would have purchased it, even without the cousel, but you DID definately point me in the right direction and I appreciate it!

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[TonyB]

Hi Wayne. I think this is the boiler I bought in June. Did you see it posted in the Twin Tiers section of Craigslist? My father and I drove 500 miles and brought it back to South Jersey. If you want, I can go into detail about the unit and what I know about Central Boilers.

[WStayton]

TonyB:

  I would be MOST interested in what you found after getting it home and hooking it up.

  And, yes, that seems to be the one that I was looking at in/from CraigsList.

  I have since bought a New Yorker for $500 that I am very pleased with so far - though I should add that, so far, I have only moved it into position and have not hooked it up or had a first burn - that's probably six months away.

  I'm anxious to see if my concerns were right or wrong!

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[LowGear]

Wayne is back!

In keeping with the advice given here (Yup, sometimes I DO listen!

I've never thought you deaf but rather "single minded".

A cord of wood is a cord of wood.  1' X 1' X 128' (44 cuts at 3' or 64 at 2' or 96 at 18") or 8' X 8" X 2" or, more traditionally, 4' X 4' X 8'.  Hence the Feature or Advantage of the 36 inch logs and the Benefit being the fewer moments on the saw.  And I'm sure at the end of the 12 cords of wood each moment makes a difference.  That's the FAB of most sales pitches. 

Thanks for getting back.  You do wrinkle my little gray cells.

Casey

[TonyB]

Wayne,

   I had the same concerns as you after meeting the gentleman.  It was a little suspicious that he was getting out of wood heat when he was living on a LOGGING ROAD in upstate New York. I settled on a price of $2300. I did my research and the same unit would cost around $8000 here. I liked his because it was such a simple operation: a coil/damper, aquastat and an overtemp snap disc. I wasn't thrilled with having a digital controller that could go bad and really leave you in a fix. I bought all of the replacement parts that I just mentioned from a dealer. In addition, I removed the door and had a new plate fabbed up that gets welded and bolted to the door. The old one was really beat. BTW the door weighs a ton. I think Central Boiler was cutting costs when they changed the style of having the damper in the door versus the side like mine is. The cost of casting that old style door can't be cost effective.  I had to replace the door gasket too.  I also bought two new sections of chimney (his were shot), a band to connect them together and an adapter becasue the new chimney is a different style than the one he had and wouldn't mount up to the old unit. I also bought a spark arrestor. The parts cost me around $550. The other costs I had were $100 for thermopex pipe and $100 for hot water tubing, $100 for a circulator pump and $220 for a 180,000 BTU heat exchanger. All told was about $4000 invested. It will pay for itself within three years.

Not too long after I had it hooked up, the damper kept sticking open. I tried lubricating it, but it still stuck. It was a little unnerving to see and hear it making STEAM instead of just HOT WATER. I changed out the coil for the damper with the spare I bought and its been fine since. It doesn't get that cold here in rural South Jersey, but the boiler is doing an admiral job. I can't find any leaks and our house stays in the 70's.

My wife and I love it. I fill it twice a day and she is able to keep it going until I can come hom from work and throw in some big logs. My only complaint is that it uses a thermometer to read the temperature. Like I mentioned above, I like having the simple aquastat to control temperature but a digital display would be nice. My project for the spring is to remove the thermometer and install a type K dual element thermocouple. I'm going to have a local digital display and I will have another in the house so I know what the temperature is. I've looked long and hard on Craigslist for used Central Boilers, but they seem few and far between in my price range. I like the reputation of Central Boilers and the fact you can still get parts even for the dinosaur ones. That's why I drove so far to get that one. I guess now you know how the unit performed.  I figured you would want to know. Good luck with your unit.

[WStayton]

LowGear:

  What makes you think I went anywhere???  I've just been too busy to write much!!! <grin>

  Spent early December to mid December moving into the new place, even though it isn't anywhere near ready for live in, but I got VERY sick of spending two hours a day driving back and forth and so i decided that I should just bite the bullet and take the leap.

  It turns out I should have done with a bit more "research" before I jumped off of the plank . . . specifically my Russo wood stove that temporarily replaces the boiler doesn't seem to be big enough to do the job - it has to be fed at least hourly or you are living in a refrigerator and even at hourly, it gets chilly when the OAT gets down into the single digits, which has left me running, whimpering, to my sisters warm, comfy, oil heated house for a shower and a warm meal!  <grin>

  Dealing with NYSEG has proved to be one of the most frustrating experiences of my life - there is only one way to do everything, that is THEIR way - no matter that you can show them where something is accepted in the National Electrical Code, if it isn't their way, they lay down in the road until you give up and do it their way.  For example, they wanted TWO "struts" between the meter and the roof line even though the distance is less than two feet.  I showed them where the electrical code said that you needed at least ONE strut for each THREE feet of unsupported rigid tubing, but they still insisted that I needed two for two feet.  It was easier to put the other support in than to argue with them!!!

  Life has been interesting - cold, but interesting!!!  <grin>

  And, on that note I shall  say goodbye!

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[LowGear]

Hi Wayne,

I went over the cord numbers to help you justify buying a large throated friend.  I've heated with wood in a couple of houses but most had the magic dial on the wall that could warm the place up as long as there was electricity.  No heat humbles a person.  But the days are already starting to get longer!

Casey

[WStayton]

TonyB;

  Your experience shows me just how little I DO know about what I am trying to do AND how deceiving appearances can be!

  I would have bet money, at pretty good odds, that when you got the beast home and hooked up, you would have had leaks!  So much for my powers of observation!  <grin>

  I think that you have taken the right approach, though, in that you have surveyed what you thought could/would go sour and taken steps to prevent it and/or have the replacement in hand.  Its lots easier, in the middle of a snow-storm, in the middle of the night, in the middle of January, to just grab the needed piece off of the shelf and slap it in, rather than to need a week to find and acqure the needed part(s).

  I was wondering if you agree with my assessment that there had been some "cosmetic" clean-up, that the seller vehemently (sp?) denied???  That was probably the biggest stumbling block for me - if there had been cosmetic clean-up done, why not say so - I was just afraid that there were another/more problems hiding behind the clean-up.

  Anyhow, glad that it has worked out for you - hope my New Yorker has the same service pattern!

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton