EMP proof generator heads and the ST models

[veggie]

Some manufacturers are advertising their product as "EMP proof" or able to withstand a sizable solar storm.

I am wondering what makes an EMP proof generator head and how does the "ST" head rate ?

A very strong magnetic field passing over a set of coils sounds like a recipe for significant current induction.

Does it matter if a unit is PM, or Brushless, or with-brushes?
What is the best way to protect a gen head from EMP (solar storm) type bombardment?
I have read that a unit should have it's own isolated ground and be disconnected from any system or load during a EMP moment.

I think this will become an important topic in the next year or so.

Any ideas or knowledge in this regard?

veggie

[rl71459]

Just thinking out loud.

On an ST wouldn't removing the brushes open the circuit and limit the inductance/reactance within the genhead? by isolating the armature?

I would think disconnection from all external circuits would be a good idea. Perhaps it would help to disconnect the wires as apposed to just opening the switch or breaker to prevent arc over thru the
switchgear.

Very interesting subject!

I would think that a permanant magnet unit could be demagged or partially so.

Rob

[DanG]

For electrical appliances & generators to be at risk would mean being connected in to the miles-long 'antenna' that is the public utility transmission line network. A 100-foot extension cord to a table saw would not place your ST head in any danger from 99.9% of solar storms. Even a direct hit of a once-in-a-thousand year storm such as the one that hit in 1859 would not kill anything without microprocessor or embedded IC controls and having lots (100's of feet) of exposed wiring.

A geomagnetic storm is very mild compared to a weapon that produces an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) - on surviving true EMP from an advanced attacker, most basic alternators and generators would survive but their control electronics and rectifier circuits may not, especially if they were connected in to any larger circuit. But that special designed fission bomb would have to be lit off 250 miles in space, past the space station and most satellite orbits, and there are only a few nations able to pull off a stunt like that. Even a city-killer terrorist weapon would only have an EMP radius of 10's of miles, just to horizon, if that - the thick air at ground level snubs the high energy particles before they can reach the earths magnetic field and get amplified.

I've seen old timers having spares wrapped in foil and placed in closed metal ammo cans stored in a metal shed - but you can bet just as soon as someone happily repaired something there would be a repeat burst just to snuff repaired items. Having stuff well grounded and permanent lines run inside metal conduit is about the only investment that might ever pay off as far as EMP shielding goes.

[veggie]

Would you treat a brushless generator any different than a brush type ?

veggie

[mobile_bob]

i think any of our generators will fair just fine as long as the case is grounded properly and disconnected from any long transmission lines

the st head (brush type) should be just fine, or at least easily repaired.

a  pm head should also be just fine, although harder to repair

a brushless ??  depending on type, i would worry about those that use diodes on the rotor
however having spare diodes would at least make it repairable.

some spares in a metal can, in a metal shed, well grounded is about as good as most of us can manage, and probably safe
enough for damn near anything short of a direct gamma ray beam from some collapsing star.  anything like that is going to
sterilize our planet to the point that none of us would be alive anyway.

thankfully the odds of that happening is probably very remote, a once in a billion year event.

bob g

[veggie]

thankfully the odds of that happening is probably very remote, a once in a billion year event.

bob g

Bob (and others)
Have a look at this....
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/21jan_severespaceweather/

Next solar storm peak is May 2013

veggie

[Thob]

There is no such thing as "EMP proof", or tornado proof, or hurricane proof, or earthquake proof  -

My house is tornado resistant, but one F5 tornado and it's all over!

There is EMP resistant - and that is a matter of degree.  How big of EMP determines whether it survives.

Like others have said - disconnect the leads, put it in a metal box (note: its case IS a metal box).

At some point the EMP is big enough that humans don't survive, and it doesn't matter if the generator survives.

Might be better to make sure your powder is dry and barrel clean - you're going to need it.  Imagine human nature at its worst as a few million people who aren't prepared head out of the city in ravenous hordes looking for food.  There you sit, the only house for miles with the lights on and the noise of a generator running.  Once all the cars and everything else stops, you'll be surprised at how far you can hear a lone generator running.

And yes, Iran has the ability to deliver the bomb.  Just take the launchers they've got and put them on a container ship, they can launch from 50-100 mile offshore.  Fortunately, they don't have the bomb, and thanks to stuxnet they may not get it this year, either.  

[cujet]

It's my understanding that the EMP voltages induced are quite high. However, the current is low. Precision electronics are at risk but robust electrical components are at less risk. In my case, I am at high risk for direct lightning strikes, and I've lost many electrical/electronic things over the years here in South Florida.

A recent lightning strike took out all sorts of electronics in my house. But the only wires that were burned out were the small telephone wires.

I built my genset with a plug on the generator head "box". That way, it's never connected to anything unless it's in use. And, from what I can tell, that's the secret to being EMP, Solar Flare and Lightning Strike "resistant".

So far, so good.

Here is an interesting article with some good data on EMP.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1549/2

[LowGear]

Next solar storm peak is May 2013

I'm curious if this transformer damage ever occurs when there isn't a solar storm of some sort?

Casey

[Horsepoor]

Man made EMP – there is no shortage of Middle Eastern nut jobs who hate the U.S. Scud missile technology is 1960s and readily available today. Remember how in the 1980s Iraq increased the range of their missiles by cutting them in half and welding in an extra long middle section full or fuel. While structurally unsound, it did function most of the time, and increased both altitude and total down range capability.

So what if you took your modified scud missile or something similar, built a launch pad for it into the cargo hold of some tramp freighter, parked your ship off the east coast of the U.S. and launched your low yield kilo ton weapon into the atmosphere up to an altitude of a 100 miles or so, say between Washington D.C and New York? You would have made an effective EMP attack on our homeland, this is very bad. What could be worse, is having more than one missile ready to launch or deploying multiple freighters.

Building a kiloton yield nuclear weapon has probably already been done or being done either by that nut in Iran or the pot belly pig in North Korea. Personally, I believe an EMP attack presents a credible threat to our safety here in the U.S.     

[rcavictim]

I can report the following has been alleged.

During the cold war the old Soviet Union made something like 700 suitcase nukes.  After the union disintegrated it is reported something like 100 of these soviet made portable nuclear devices RA-115/Ra-116 (aka 'mini nukes') have gone missing and are presently unaccounted for.

It gets better.  The Soviets lost their nuclear armed submarine the Kursk when it sank after a violent chemical explosion that sent the ship to the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_K-141_Kursk. 

Before the submarine was successfully recovered, all 22 Russian Granit (or Granite) or P-700 missiles (You can check that one in Wikipedia), a 10 meter long heavy ~7 ton heavily armored cruise missle that travels at Mach 2.5 and designed as an anti ship missile, each containing a half megaton (500 kiloton or more than 25 Hiroshimas each) warhead were stolen. The Russians undertook an elaborate ruse to deceive the world into believing the missiles had been recovered intact still in the submarine and were safely disposed of.  They were not.  Wikipedia says that the Russians claimed vehemently that there were no nuclear tips in these missles.  What would you expect them to say?

Either one or three of these missles are accounted for as either one or three have since been flown and crashed into targets. At least one of the flown missles contained the nuke warhead but it did not go off when it crashed into it's target due to a malfunctioning detonator. That leaves 19 or 21 of the missles presently unaccounted for.

Find out all about it here.  Watch all of the segments.  Come to your own conclusions.
http://www.disclose.tv/forum/dimitri-khalezov-wtc-nuclear-demolition-full-playlist-t21675.html

Alternate source and more info.
http://www.dimitri-khalezov-video.com/

Sleep well my friends.  If you live in an apartment in the Sears Tower in Chicago you might want to move.

[WStayton]

  I USED to think (before 9/11) that an EMP was highly unlikely - now, I think that is only a matter of time until some nut-case gets enough $$$ in one pile to make it happen . . .

  Which brings me to my question:  How is a solar-panel/battery/generator set-up that is wired to sell excess power back to the power company going to fare when this happens?

  I THINK i have one thing going for me, in that I will only use the generator for 12 hours a week for 25 weeks a year and when it isn't being used, I will pull the disconnect that hoooks it to the sytem - but will induced voltage from an EMP "jump-the-gap" in my little disconnect, or should I use something like a set of cartridge fuses and physially pull them out of the system when it is down - thus leavijng a gap of a couple of inches in the circuit instead of a couple of tenths of an inch???


I think it is a forgone conclusion that the inverter/battery charger will be smoked history, especially since it is hooked to the grid - though in the winter, when I don't have any power to sell, I suppose it could have a cartridge fuse setup, too.  But I'm not sure that will help for an EMP that can get into the system through the solar panels / wiring . . . .


  Also, what effect/affect does an EMP have on a set of solar panels, other then frying any back-current limiting diodes in the system???

  On third thought, I am not sure I want to be sitting there with the lights on when the rest of the country is black!!!  Can you say:  Invitation for foul play???

  Input is appreciated.

Regardz,

Wayne Stayton

[mike90045]

things connected to long cables, are going to die.   Long depends on how close to the event you are.   2 feet underground, may help, if the ground is damp. Dry is useless.  A disconnected genset will likely survive. 30' feeders from PV to controller -  Long depends on how close to the event you are!

[rcavictim]

Increasing the air spacing from the mains terminals and your private dwelling circuit with an appropriate disconnect sounds like a good idea to me.  I would not stop at disconnecting the two power conductors however.  Neutral conductor will also be your enemy in a conducted EMP scenario and must also be isolated.  One of those fused pull-outs for 3-phase with the neutral fuse in the pullout defeated so no fuse, just copper link in the pullout ought to be a better solution than a regular disconnect switch from a flashover potential perspective.

Code may not permit disconnecting oneself from the neutral.  You might risk becoming a criminal in order to better protect yourself.

[sailawayrb]

"Solar storms" adhere to a predictable 11 year cycle.  Ham radio operators look forward to these 11 year cyclical solar storm peaks because we can communicate around the world using HF radios (skipping our RF energy off the ionosphere) using only a few micro watts of RF energy.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionosphere

The concern is with "geomagnetic storms" which are not predictable (at least not yet), but which fortunately have an extremely low probability of occurrence. Nuclear weapon induced EMP is an entirely different matter which is also not predictable but perhaps not low probability either.  However, I truly pity the fool that tries to make a go of this on the US. We now have much higher energy surgical weapons that make nuclear weapons look like stone clubs. I hope I live long enough to enjoy the entertainment value if this happens.

Bob B.