Billswan's 16/1 Metro

[veggie]

Bill, can us tell us anything about the oil?
Previous data on this forum has shown that certain synthetics actually resist combustion.
WVO is a very inconsistent fuel. Do you have any idea as to the makeup of the batches you are getting ?

Some deposits should be expected but yours seem to be appearing a bit too early.

BTW, others can correct me if I'm wrong on this but 26 deg. advance timing might be a bit excessive (even damaging).
You don't want to hammer the piston on the way up.

For what it's worth, on my
Slow speed Changfa project which was also a direct injection engine, I retarded the timing 2 degrees to 16 BTC.
(Caveat....mine was burning a WVO blend).  RPMs were 900 - 1000

veggie

[billswan]

 Yes veggie

The whole 55 gallon barrel was oil out of the transmission of a john deere farm tractor.

The oil is both a gear oil and a hydraulic fluid. It probably has lots of extreme pressure additives and anti chatter additives to make wet brakes work smoothly. As for any other additives maybe cognos will read this and give us a hint.

The oil is called hy-gard a JD brand for there transmissions.

It sure looks great clean no carbon like engine oil but I believe the engine will fair better if I run Waste engine oil.

By the way I know what you mean about damage to the piston and I will risk it.
I remember playing with an old farm tractor running it on my dyno and playing with ignition timing and watching HP output and its relation to timing. And I sure found out that more timing is not better. I actually got more usable hp with less timing advance on that particular tractor. Turns out the critter was so old it was meant to run on tractor fuel an old half gas half kerosene type of fuel. Well that old critter already had lots of advance to get that slow burning fuel to pull. Turned out when those were run on gasoline they already are to far in advance and more just produced less power as the piston was still coming up and the fire was already well ahead fighting the process.

Billswan

[veggie]

Well, in my opinion, there's part of your problem.
Gear oil is too viscous and hydraulic oil burns like crap.
Standard gear oil is 90 weight. Far to thick for the micro ports on a DI injector.
Wouldn't you have to add a lot of thinner agent to get that stuff to spray properly through an injector.?

If rcavictim could pipe in, I think he used to run his engine on hydraulic oil.? Did not have good results.

veggie

[rcavictim]

I have some hydraulic oil here that I got for free which just does not work as diesel engine fuel, even cut 25%with RUG.  It has the sulfur smell of EP hypoid gear lube oil but is about the viscocity of #20 motor oil.  As soon as it gets to the injector of my running and up to temp JD175A the engine loses about 25% power and starts to smoke and stink.  Not much longer and the engine wants to die completely.  This is with a nichrome injector heater that allows the engine to run great on some really thick oil I have that is about equivalent to somewhere between STP oil treatment and molasses at room temp, but which burns absolutely clean in this engine straight uncut with the same heated injector.

The fellow I got this oil from used it in his 1 ton Ford diesel truck and ended up having to buy new injectors.  I am fairly certain it has synthetic additives, perhaps even silicone chemistry.

I plan to try it as a low friction gear lube in my wind turbine for cold weather performance.

[vdubnut62]

Veggie, he means that the John Deere spec'd stuff FUNCTIONS as both gear oil and hyd fluid, it's not a mixture of both.
Run the wrong stuff for long and you'll be replacing a very expensive ring gear and pinion. My Old JD Hoe has to have the same high dollar stuff.
Ron

I've got 150 gals of mystery hyd oil to burn, I will eventually get around to it.
It may end up on a brush pile!

[Bottleveg]

Bill,
Synthetic oils don't burn well. Even my pressure jet burner has a recommendation for diesel dilution if using synthetic oil.
You don't say whether you are filtering with sock or pumped cartridge filter.
Make a batch with regular wmo and filter it to 1 or ½ micron with a cartridge filter.

[billswan]

the oil is about 20 w and is filtered through spin on filters meant for secondary diesel finishing with 6 micron as the finest. The older farm tractors filter to only 10 micron so I figured 6 would be good enough. Tractors built in the 70's and 80's but also including one jd I have built in 97.

I do have a heater on the WMO filter and it uses the bypass water and the thermo is at 205 degrees f.

by the way the 50/50 mix is also to much as the tip carboned over with that to.

Next batch running now is 33% oil 66% diesel..................

Off for a long day at the farm be back late............

Billswan

[Bottleveg]

Bill
What I'm wondering is if the deposit on the injector tip is being caused by the non-oil particles in the wmo. If this is so then finer filtering should improve things.
I'm not sure, it's just an idea. As I've said before, my 8/1 has been running on ½ micron filtered oil. I have no deposit on the injector but I haven't got that many hours on it so I can't give any valid results.

[Tom Reed]

The deposits I've found on  my injector, when burning WHO, are white on the inside.

[billswan]

Well guys

Have run 3 small 3 gallon batches of 1/3 WHO to 2/3 no 2 diesel.

And all with the same results the injector tip is almost totally covered over with light colored carbon and when you knock it out of the hole the piston cup under it is very white. That is after each 3 gallon batch!!

For those that might not be following as close as some this is a direct injected critter.

Will let it rest for a few hours as the hour meter has reached the second oil change and the farm is calling to me again. Got to go finish up a job that is only a month behind from all the cold weather.

Lots of much warmer weather next week.

Will push aside that barrel of oil and go back to black mystery oil. Hard to believe that clean oil runs worse than black carbon loaded stuff.

So far the direct injected 16/1 is starting to look like a worse failure than the 10/1 at least that engine made it to 1775 hours before the end.

I tried to call sam crosby for some advise and check on parts availability but all I got was his answering machine with the message he is out of 6/1's. Will have to try again.

Billswan

[veggie]

Billswan,

I would suggest that the recent batch of oil is the cause of your problems. Not the timing, and not the engine design.
I recently had access to 200 gallons of new oil (still in sealed pails) for use as fuel.
Upon investigating the oil's specs, it turned out to have a flash point of 550F.
Fresh clear new oil yes....but it would have burned like crap.
I had to turn it down.

veggie

[billswan]

Guys

Got the oil changed and mixed up a totally new batch of fuel.

Pushed aside the WHO and went back to black mystery oil and diesel at 1/3 oil and 2/3 diesel.

That 3 gallon batch went through real well and the injector tip did have some white ash stuck to it but the hole in the head was mostly clear not covered over like when running the hydraulic oil.

Have now mixed another 3 gallon batch at 50/50, will see if that works also.

Billswan

[billswan]

Bill
What I'm wondering is if the deposit on the injector tip is being caused by the non-oil particles in the wmo. If this is so then finer filtering should improve things.
I'm not sure, it's just an idea. As I've said before, my 8/1 has been running on ½ micron filtered oil. I have no deposit on the injector but I haven't got that many hours on it so I can't give any valid results.

Bottleveg

Yes it would be nice to be able to filter that fine but am not set up to do it so will stick with what I am using for now.

May be for next heating season. The shop heating season here in minnesota is probably down to 4 to 5 weeks.

I am thinking of just getting a regular waste oil burner and using that instead.

Might get me some 6/1 parts and fix up my 10/1 as a high rpm cast iron piston thumper if I can work out the balance and use it as a idi test bed and try to get that to run on WMO. The ring lands would be much tougher for when all that abrasive ash gets in there

Billswan

[billswan]

Ok the 50/50 batch went through with reasonable results there was some white ash on the injector tip but not too bad, the hole the tip fits in was clear also.

Tried to take a pix of the injector but it was to poor to post.

Have now moved on to 2/3 mystery oil and 1/3 diesel same 3 gallon batch will see how that works.

Billswan

[billswan]

 Well this 16/1 just don't like wmo.

Got a call through to sam crosby today he is the guy that sold it to me.

He said I need to heat the injector line.

Well from what I have read that might or might not work.

So what the heck I am game I will give it a try.

Looked up rope heaters at Omega.com and found 2 that might work.

1 model FGR-030 3 feet long 125 watt 120 volt and 12$ cost.

2 model htc-030 3 feet long 64 watt 120 volt and 26 $ cost.

So which is better 1 or 2? Any injector line heater guru's out there?

I know I can use a light dimmer to derate either one but is 64 watts enough?

Maybe a longer heater?

Any advise is welcome 0 experience with rope heaters.

Billswan