Expected life expectancy from WMO?

[spencer1885]

I believe that the lister-oid is an poor candidate for WMO the precup just runs to cold. Unless full load and max compression is continiously applied it just carbons up. Even the original lister manual called for a de carbon every 1000 hours.

Ok, so what engine would be the absolute best choice for burning WMO? Honestly I don't know a lot about these big diesels. To me, if it's big and green and has a giant flywheel, it's a lister or listeroid.

On the other hand what about the Metro 28/2 "petteroid" bob is trying to get rid of? How well do you guys think that engine specifically would be suited to WMO?

The way I figure, the bigger the engine, the more $$$ it can generate before it wears out.

No engine is more suitable for burning WMO than another, they are all going to die a slow death.
You might as well go to a breakers yard and buy the cheapest diesel engine you can and then throw it away when it dies.

[spencer1885]

BioHazard,
Have been reading the posts?
WMO will kill any engine in a very short time,1800 hours seem to be the point that the damage will already be severe .

[AdeV]

How about.... making an oil burner (there's some designs out there) which will burn the oil & produce loads of heat; use that to fuel a boiler, & run a steam engine?

OK, there are some significant hurdles; the boiler probably being the biggest one - it would have to be constructed to code & inspected (annually?); but the "cool" factor would be massive...

[spencer1885]

Hi AdeV,

I had the same idea but that's as far as it went.
Some one with more time and patience than me I'm sure could do it.

Spencer

[BioHazard]

No engine is more suitable for burning WMO than another, they are all going to die a slow death.
You might as well go to a breakers yard and buy the cheapest diesel engine you can and then throw it away when it dies.
[/quote]
I disagree 100%. Certainly some diesels will last thousands of hours on WMO, while some wouldn't last 5 minutes. For example a lister could do multi thousand hours...but that little Yanmar from Surplus center wouldn't last a week. (or I'd buy it) If I could go to a "breakers yard" and buy a running diesel engine for much less than a lister I would. Diesel engines tend to be very, very, very expensive, even junked...that's why we love third world engines so much. Good running diesels don't just sit around junkyards collecting rust. Maybe in Europe...

If I could find a running diesel, any diesel, with good life left and all required running parts for around $1,000, I'd be all over that. Honestly I think listeroids and changfoids are the cheapest diesel engine you can buy...if you can find one.

I've thought really, really hard about a simple waste oil burner, but I really don't want to rely on something homemade, and I really, really don't want to spend the bucks on a commercial unit. Plus, I have a lot greater need for electricity than heat. In the summer time a listeroid would sure be great for air conditioning and pool heating.

[spencer1885]

BioHazard,
I can buy a good running diesel from a breakers yard for less than £200 in the UK.
Well lets see these engines that have lasted thousands of hours on nearly neat WMO.
If you read the previous posts then you would have seen that the additives in lubricating oil that when burnt make a white abrasive ash which grinds the rings and bores away.
Perhaps the engines you are referring to are made of some thing harder than steel.

[BioHazard]

BioHazard,
I can buy a good running diesel from a breakers yard for less than £200 in the UK.
Well lets see these engines that have lasted thousands of hours on nearly neat WMO.
If you read the previous posts then you would have seen that the additives in lubricating oil that when burnt make a white abrasive ash which grinds the rings and bores away.
Perhaps the engines you are referring to are made of some thing harder than steel.

Not in the USA, not by a long shot. You might get a rusted out cracked core block for that price. Even then, most of the diesel engines we have to choose from are V8 truck engines. I understand perfectly clear that a diesel engine is not going to last as long running WMO than it would running clean diesel. I am willing to sacrifice engine life if my engine runs from free fuel. I understand that just fine. The only real question is how much engine life am I sacrificing.

In the US we simply don't have diesel cars. The EPA hates them as much as listeroids. There are a few exceptions, but that makes their motors extremely valueable. For example, a good running complete VW diesel could easily cost $1000...and that's for a used motor from a wrecked car most likely missing all accessories. Additionally they have no governor or stub shaft. Also, any modern diesel engine out of a car isn't going to run without an extremely complicated computer system.

[spencer1885]

The best thing is work out how hours per year you would have to run the engine for power only as a CHP is just going to put to many hours on the engine.
If you can do it in 3000 hours or less then its viable.
Use a battery bank and buy your self a waste oil fired boiler that's the most economical way of doing it.

[billswan]

Another question - what about thinning WMO with bad/old gasoline? I've got at least 30 gallons of it around the shop, and I'm sure I could find more where that came from.

YES but what state do you live in? What is in the RUG in your area in my area you cannot buy straight gasoline it is all spiked with 10% ethanol. There are some premium only pumps for special uses like chain saws and old engines that must have premium gas. But any old gas found in this area might have ethanol in it and that will cause trouble in a diesel.

Billswan

[spencer1885]

Another question - what about thinning WMO with bad/old gasoline? I've got at least 30 gallons of it around the shop, and I'm sure I could find more where that came from.

YES but what state do you live in? What is in the RUG in your area in my area you cannot buy straight gasoline it is all spiked with 10% ethanol. There are some premium only pumps for special uses like chain saws and old engines that must have premium gas. But any old gas found in this area might have ethanol in it and that will cause trouble in a diesel.

Billswan


Billswan,
Ethanol is no problem as it's already blended in to pump diesel any way.
Ethanol gives a cleaner burn in diesels but ethanol with will mix with water so be careful when storing modern fuels in large tanks.

[BioHazard]

Another question - what about thinning WMO with bad/old gasoline? I've got at least 30 gallons of it around the shop, and I'm sure I could find more where that came from.

YES but what state do you live in? What is in the RUG in your area in my area you cannot buy straight gasoline it is all spiked with 10% ethanol. There are some premium only pumps for special uses like chain saws and old engines that must have premium gas. But any old gas found in this area might have ethanol in it and that will cause trouble in a diesel.

Billswan

Regular, 100% gasoline does not exist in the state of Oregon. Everything is alcoholic. It's "legal" to sell premium gas without ethanol, but nobody does. There just isn't enough demand for that sort of thing.

[billswan]

Yes it is the water that could cause you problems. It will pull the ethanol out of the mix and will go to the bottom of the tank. There if the injector pump gets a hold of a gob of that ethanol and water but no diesel there is the problem.

Billswan

[bschwartz]

Here in the US, I think the cheapest diesel engines to be found would be a mid 80's GM 6.2 non turbo V-8.
Often on Craigslist for around $600.  Heck, I've got one in a '82 Suburban with a blown transmission.  Maybe it needs a new home 

[deeiche]

rm /

[mobile_bob]

did a bit more reading last night, and came across this

(and yes i realize that there are many issues relating to safety etc)

http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/canada/477932-1.html


here is the thought,

do it on a small scale batch fire manner, and use the prime mover as both the heat source and the vacuum source
as well as the consumer of the finished product.

the exhaust coming off a fully loaded engine is likely hot enough to drive the system,  the system being small in size
could have its smell and fumes inhaled by the engine for further reduction and provide a level of safety, along with the needed
vacuum (low level) and when the engine is shut down the system quits because there is no longer heat to drive it.

such a small system could be built using schedule 80 pipe for the hot zone, safety pressure relief valves could be incorporated
and the whole thing could be made adequately safe and as clean as simply burning waste motor oil in an engine.

the left over sludge however is an issue, it would have to be recycled, however that amount should be ~20% of the original volume
or maybe less, it could be used in a number of other ways in some places such as mixing with woodchips for  feedstock in a gasifier or
outdoor woodburner, or mixed with asphalt, or simply taken to a waste oil recycle drop.

the small batch fire system might well be the answer, as the resultant gasoil is said to be unstable and needs stabilizer work done on it to make
a good fuel, however if we are using the fuel as it is produced or very soon after production this instability should be a non issue. or at least
not much of an issue.

i think this could be done,, maybe not in every location, but certainly in many places.

bob g