glowplugs for the changfa

[Henry W]

As some may know and others don't, glowplugs in the head only work on "IDI" engines.
For "DI" engines, heating the intake air is the only safe option.

snip...

Wow! The engineers at Kubota must have screwed up because my 300 series engine, directly injected, has a glow plug which is screwed into the head right beside the injector.

R

Hi rogerAS

I believe the Kubota 300 series engine is an IDI engine. What is the model #?

Henry

[Crofter]

The original poster on this issue may have been referring specifically to the changfa and be 100% correct. I am not familiar with that setup.

There definitely are direct injected engines with glowplugs but you could not easily tell from the outside of the head whether an engine was DI or IDI or whether the glow plug you see beside the injector goes into the intake port, a pre combustion chamber, or directly into the cylinder.

[Henry W]

Yes the origional post is referring to Changfa engines.

It is easy to tell A DI and IDI Changfa engine apart. The DI cylinder head will not have a location to screw Bob's glow plug kit in place.

Henry

[vdubnut62]

Yes the origional post is referring to Changfa engines.

It is easy to tell A DI and IDI Changfa engine apart. The DI cylinder head will not have a location to screw Bob's glow plug kit in place.

Henry

My 1100 is IDI. if it has a spot for a glowplug, I haven't found it!
Ron

[Henry W]

Hi Ron,

I forgot to mention in my last post that there is another way to tell by pulling the Injector nozzle out and see if it is a short stubby one or a long thin pencel type. If it is a long thin pencel type than you have a Direct Injected engine. This is the best way to check to see what you have.

P.S. What I wrote earlier is not the best way to tell. I guess I am slipping

Henry

[RogerAS]

Henry,

My Kubota is an EL 300 AB. It is beyond a doubt direct injected. It has a glow plug in the head very near the long skinny injector, which has a steel fuel line running straight from the injector pump, which is directly operated via a cam lobe. I've had this engine apart from stem to stern and know it well, and this is my second such engine.

When I burned out my glow plug because I was stupid in operating it off a single pole single throw switch I had to find a way to start the engine in 10° F. I used a small propane torch to heat the head very near the intake valve. When I thought it was warm enough I employed the compression release, spinning the engine up fairly fast, before allowing a start attempt. It worked, but I sure didn't like that gymnastic effort to get the little beast poppin'. My Kubota owners manual warns repeatedly that the use of ether based starting fluid is a dumb idea. I wonder if propane dumped into the intake would help in cold weather starts when/if the GP fails?

HERE is a tech sheet for the 300 series engines.

[mobile_bob]

Roger

if your engine is a typical kubota idi engine, using a triple port spherical prechamber

take a look at the bottom of the spec sheet, the illustration shows the layout

the ea300 engine's are idi iirc, and it appears that they are listed as spherical as are the el300?

does you head have the hotplug in the head (the blue tophat looking thing at the bottom of the picture)

i am not sure, but am trying to learn more about the kubota hotplug design, and would like to get my hands
on one, a picture of, or dimensioned drawing as i have a machinist able to replicate the plug for use in an idi changfa.
which i believe would make the engine meet emissions as well as the kubota engines of similar size.

so if you or anyone has more info on the kubota hotplug idi engine with the triple port i would really like to hear or see more of it.

bob g

[Henry W]

I just checked. Here is the spec sheet.

Specifications:
  • Type: Horizontal water-cooled 4-cycle diesel engine
  • KUBOTA Model: EL300AR
  • Number of Cylinders: 1
  • Bore x stroke [in.]: 2.95 x 2.76
  • Displacement [cu.in.]: 19.0
  • SAE net intermittent (HP/rpm): 4.5/2000
  • Combustion system: Spherical  
  • Compression ratio: 23 to 1  
  • Fuel injection pump type: Bosch "mini" type
  • Nozzle type: Bosch "throttle" type
  • Cooling system: Fresh water heat exchanger
  • Lubricating system: Forced lubricating by trochoid pump
  • Fuel: ASTM #2 diesel or equivalent
  • Lubricating oil: Quality better than API service CC class
  • Lubricating oil capacity (US Qt): 1.9


With 23 to 1 compression it has to be an IDI engine. This is just a slower running engine compaired to the EA300 I had 8 months ago. Nothing wrong with the EL300 being IDI. They are great engines and it should run a long time.

Kubota's Three Vortex Combustion System is their patented prechamber and has been around for a while and I loved the way the EA300 ran. It was a very quiet running engine.

Here is an intresting link: http://www.i-m-a.de/pdf/kubota/Horizontal-Motor/ea300.pdf

Henry

[Henry W]

Bob,
What I need to do is talk to the service manager at the Kubota dealer and see if they have a junk head that I might be able to get a hot plug out of.

Henry

[RogerAS]

Hey,

Well, I suppose I need educated as to the actual difference between DI and IDI. Is the DI system one where fuel is injected into the cylinder as opposed to a combustion chamber within the head?

My owners manual and the service manual both claim these are DI engines as does the web page I cited earlier.

Why would Kubota make these DI claims if these engines aren't DI?

I'm more confused than I need to be.

R

[NevadaBlue]

meanwhile back at the changfa glow plug issue... 

Could someone post a picture of where the match/glowplug goes?

[Crofter]

Hey,

Well, I suppose I need educated as to the actual difference between DI and IDI. Is the DI system one where fuel is injected into the cylinder as opposed to a combustion chamber within the head?

My owners manual and the service manual both claim these are DI engines as does the web page I cited earlier.

Why would Kubota make these DI claims if these engines aren't DI?

I'm more confused than I need to be.

R

R, there is sometimes rather a blurry line between what is DI and IDI. There are different degrees of isolation from the precombustion and main chamber. Sometimes the passage way is very restricted and gives high turbulence to a rather poorly atomized fuel spray. In such IDI engines it is easy to glowplug them and they can commonly do a better job of dealing with sub standard fuels. Because of more area exposed and heat loss into the coolant, fuel consumption is usually not as good but they tend to be a bit quieter on ignition rattle.

Some engines can have a much more loosley connected prechamber (like the Lister CS which is actually a Ricardo engine) There is not a whole lot of turbulence. Still others can have partial combustion space in the piston and part in the head or entirely in the piston and would be considered DI. Probably some might be almost a matter of opinion to name which or t'other.

[mobile_bob]

it appears that not all of the s1100 idi engine's have been machined to accept a precup glowplug.


and to answer an earlier question, yes the glowplug still works as it should in my s195 idi engine.


bob g

[Hank]

Bob, I would be interested in 2 glow plugs as well.
I'm new to the board and this is my first post/reply.
Seems like a great and informative board.

Thanks,
Hank

[mobile_bob]

Hank

good to have you on board, welcome!


guys:

i will make up the first run and take some pics, anyone still wanting can confirm and i will get them out to you.

probably be just after christmas before i can get them done and ready to mail out.

bob g