Lubrication system thoughts

[Jens]

I am starting to think about things to set up when Thumper is back together. I thought I would run this up the flag pole and see what you guys think ....

My 20/2 has a drain plug on the bottom of the oil sump. This is also the point where the plunger oil pump picks up it's feed. Suppose I pulled the plug and put on a standpipe that sets the oil level. Any excess oil would overflow the standpipe into a collector tank of say a gallon or two capacity. Now let's say I take the feed for the plunger oil pump not from the sump but from the overflow container.
In operation, the overflow container would be topped up with oil, the pump would pull the oil out of the container, introduce it into the crankcase where it would cause the oil level to overflow and cause oil circulation. The level of oil that the dippers encounter is always stationary and the overflow tank is easily monitored to see if it needs any additional oil. It would also avoid the current hassle of having to take the crankcase access door off to add oil. My only concern is if the oil introduced by the plunger pump can drain quick enough into the overflow tank.

Oil changes could be done away with if one gradually mixed motor oil with the fuel at a rate that would deplete the overflow tank during the time of one oil change interval. Let's say for example every 100 hours of operation, one gallon of oil is used up and replaced with fresh oil. Since fresh oil is always introduced, the oil additives are never used up and the engine should be able to run with no regular oil changes. Any crud can be filtered out with an automotive oil filter.

Thoughts ?

[mike90045]

Won't you have to deal with the crankcase pressure changes as piston goes up & down ?  (maybe that pressure surge can run an oil pump ? )

[LowGear]

We could call it the "Virtual Oil Change System". 

One of the reasons I change oil every year or two is to get rid of the cooked additives not to forget the crap that has fallen into the oil and sunk to the bottom.  Actually, I think the additives leak just as surely as they burn. 

If you want to plumb then put a tee at the bottom in sideways.  The plugged bottom would be your drain and the horizontal would come over to the side and 90 up to where it is easy to fill and monitor.  You might even use clear PVC for the vertical so oil level would be ready for a glance.

Casey

[billswan]

Jens

I think you should try it, at least up to the point that you wrote the following paragraph.

Oil changes could be done away with if one gradually mixed motor oil with the fuel at a rate that would deplete the overflow tank during the time of one oil change interval. Let's say for example every 100 hours of operation, one gallon of oil is used up and replaced with fresh oil. Since fresh oil is always introduced, the oil additives are never used up and the engine should be able to run with no regular oil changes. Any crud can be filtered out with an automotive oil filter.

Could you expand on how you might accomplish this. A metered leak? And then you top it up each day? Is that what you mean?

Billswan

[vdubnut62]

Ask MobileBob for more info, but I think that Roadway and Yellow Freight have done something like that for years..... bypassed part of the engine oil to the fuel tanks. I have heard that they never "change" oil, just the filters and keep the sump topped off.
EPA regs probably have stopped the practice currently, I do know that my employer no longer blends the UMO into the bulk fuel tanks
Ron

[billswan]

Jens and Vdubnut62

Yes ask bob I believe he did mention something like that somewhere along the way.

I suppose you could just use an IV type of drip of fresh oil directly into the engine which would then using your plan wind up in the extra sump you add and then make an over flow on that sump so if the engine is not using oil it would just collect in another catch tank which you could monitor and then empty into a filter and then into the fuel tank.

Personally I would like to see what is coming out before it just gets sent into the fuel system.

Billswan

[SHIPCHIEF]

What I get from your proposal is that you are making a weir to maintain a perfect oil level for the dippers, and allowing crud to settle in the sump, while letting clean oil over the lip of the weir to be picked up by the oil pump for return to the engine. As built, the pump picks up oil from the bottom of the sump where the crud settles, so your idea is very good from a clean oil point of view as well as maintaining a perfect oil level.
The "Original Listers" had a similar system, with a lower front sump to collect the crud, and dipper troughs that the oil pump refilled.
My ASHWAMEGH 25/2 does not have them, it has a simple flat bottom sump, but the oil distribution manifold was cast with the pads for the oil lines intended to fill those dipper troughs. Many corners were cut with the Indian Listeroids.
I went with a different plan. I made an oil pump discharge line that passed out of the block to a full flow oil filter, and a heat exchanger in the hot water up-leg, then back into the engine to the oil manifold then the bearings. So I have full flow oil at near jacket water temp to drive off moisture from the oil, now the 15-40 detergent oil will do it's job.
I should add a positive crank case ventillation system too, like Ken Gardener, with a suction line to the intake manifold.