Natural gas homebuilt?

[TimSR2]

NA natural gas market is tube- ing even as we speak..Long term outlook is for ultra cheap methane.   Fuel cost for a standby set will be negligible. Gas engines are quieter by far. Parts for gas engines are cheaper and more plentiful. The fuel does not go bad. Pipeline interruptions haven't occurred in decades. With the right kit propane is a good backup source. Just why are we all still fixated on diesels? Remind me.

I am thinking of a 2500 rpm vee belt drive vtwin spark ignition, dual or   tri fuel Briggs /Honda or kawasaki air cooled, with ST  head  for heavy standby use. Stacked vertically of course.  A  long extension fuel hose from your barbecue will power it with natural gas; with some replacement jets propane can take over in a pinch. Built properly it would be dead quiet, and the soft acceleration of the gas engine would produce flicker free light.

Anybody?

[mobile_bob]

in my arsenal of power producers are some gas/petrol powered units, and i have
3 of the little propane powered 6kwatt 24volt units that are Vtwin powered as well.

don't get me wrong diesel has its place, but having the ability to run any sort of fuel
is appealing to me.

what would be really useful to me would be one of the watercooled Vtwin verticals like
the kawasaki at surpluscenter.com has.

it could be setup to provide back up power and make domestic hot water which is always
in need when the power is out, that is in all electric homes where the water tank gets cold
in a hurry.

that and a small heat exchanger on the exhaust and one could get the overall efficiency in cogen
mode up to that of a diesel no problem, and also avoid the exhaust cleaning associated with the
typical exchangers most folks end up using for their diesel engines.

why not?  most folks don't need a 10k hr  engine for backup emergency use anyway.

bob g

[veggie]

I agree...TRAITORS all of you! 

Don't abandon the diesel!
Convert it to NG.

Like this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwPPui8Fyi0

carlb, is your Listeroid on NG still doing OK. Please give us an update.

Cheers,
Veggie

[Carlb]

It is still doing fine although it doesn't get much use since it is just for backup.  It has only run about 30 hours this year but seems to run fine and doesn't use much diesel.

[SHIPCHIEF]

One of my kids has an 'All Natural Gas' house. When the power went out for a week in 2007, he used a Coleman 4 Kw gas genny to make the power to run the fan in the furnace, the refridgerator and a few lights in the house etc. Later he converted it to run on Natural Gas also. Talk about low impact during a power outage!
The guy across the street has an 'ALL Natural Gas' house. His Honda 2.5 Kw gen provided plenty of power for the TV and Microwave, as well as the furnace fan. I don't know if 2.5 Kw can run a 'fridge. That seems a bit close to the edge, and damaging a 'fridge is spendy.
I have a Listeroid, and Lister SR2 and 3 Onans. One of those Onans is going to get an LP/Natural Gas carb & regulator set that fits on top of the gas carb for a "Tri-Fuel" set up. Probably the Onan 6.5 NH.
I don't have Natural Gas yet, but the neighbor next door does, so it's available. It only makes sense.
Plus, old Onans run kinda smelly. Propane or Natural Gas would be much cleaner?

[SHIPCHIEF]

Just a follow up on natural gas;
My son Peter scored a 1962 ONAN 7.5Kw CW series genset. It was a federal contract standby genset for the FAA.
It's an older version of the Onan twins we've all come to know and love. Older, bigger, heavier. The cylinders are removable, and it has a 4" bore.
It had sat a long time, and the right spark plug was squeezed shut. The sump oil was about 2/3 gasoline. After we got the new plugs in, oil changed, tins off and fins all cleaned out, we started it up. Voltage was high, 300 Volts. I presume the governor speed had been increased so it would make 60 Hz when it was only running on one cylinder.  This thing is in amazing good condition for it's age, and the decade of neglect.
This thing reminds me of a Lister, it's got that 1950's tough look. We're having great fun with it, and the natural gas conversion parts are on the way.

[vdubnut62]

Can't get NG here and Propane is OMG! Plus tank rental.........  Robber barons the lot.
Ron

[hugenbdd]

NA natural gas market is tube- ing even as we speak..Long term outlook is for ultra cheap methane.   Fuel cost for a standby set will be negligible. Gas engines are quieter by far. Parts for gas engines are cheaper and more plentiful. The fuel does not go bad. Pipeline interruptions haven't occurred in decades. With the right kit propane is a good backup source. Just why are we all still fixated on diesels? Remind me.

I am thinking of a 2500 rpm vee belt drive vtwin spark ignition, dual or   tri fuel Briggs /Honda or kawasaki air cooled, with ST  head  for heavy standby use. Stacked vertically of course.  A  long extension fuel hose from your barbecue will power it with natural gas; with some replacement jets propane can take over in a pinch. Built properly it would be dead quiet, and the soft acceleration of the gas engine would produce flicker free light.

Anybody?

I have a conversion on a briggs & stratton 3600rpm emergency generator.  Just be careful how far away from the meter the genny is when hooking it up with a bbq hose.  bbq grill hose is very small, mine is about 3/8ths.  My 50 foot hose for the genny is 1 inch.  The father away from the meter you get, the larger the hose has to be.  My understanding is that it's due to the low pressure NG is under.

The hose does come in handy to hook up the NG patio heater, and it's nice to never have to fill up a 20lb tank of propane anymore.

Dave

[SHIPCHIEF]

Peter converted the house from oil to natural gas, so he had the luxury of choosing the size and route of the gas lines...he dug them himself.
The Genny sits in the corner of the 50x30 detached shop, with an exhaust port in the wall. This engine is much bigger, I anticipate some vents for Onan's famous Vac-U-Flo cooling.
The natural gas conversion he's using retains the gasoline carb, so technically it will be "multifuel". I would encourage him to remove the mechanical fuel pump tho-.

[XYZER]

If I lived in the city where they all have NG after what I know now I suppose I would just buy a nice new Miller NG/Propane welder generator.  If I had kept track of the money spent on my Listeroid/Kubota/whatever generator obsesion I would have been money ahead and have a nice welder to play with on some other project..Hmmm but I think I can still do that...

[SHIPCHIEF]

XYZER;
I'm with you on that. I've got the Listeroid in the garage, even has some of your parts. I still enjoy it thoroughly, but as a practical matter (and my obsession with generators in general) I've also aquired other brands & types.
Scott

[SHIPCHIEF]

Peter hooked up the ONAN 705CW to the natural gas line. He dug the trench and installed the 1" line to the garage for generator and garage heater last year.
The old Coleman Powermate 3500 was set up to run off this line with a 1/2" flex line to a Beam Garretson NH regulator, and a carb top adapter.
The ONAN CW engine is 20 HP and the Beam Garretson NH is rated to 24 HP. The ONAN carb is in 2 pieces, so the wet part was unbolted from the throttle plate. Peter made a "natural gas carb" from pipe fittings and welded them together, then bolted it on. In this crude form the 7.5 Kw generator put out about 6.3 Kw.
Peter is reworking the carb and increased the size of the fuel line and fittings from 3/8" to 1/2" from the regulator to the carb. I'm encouraging him to increase the size of the isolation valve at the end of the 1" fuel line, and the flex hose to the regulator too.
I understand the Natural gas and Propane models had higher compression, but I can't find the high compression heads for Onan CCK engines let alone the older CW series. We'll just have to keep an eye out and hope someone has them....
The exhaust fumes on gasoline were pretty toxic, but on natural gas, it was very clean. I'm excited about converting my house from oil heat to natural gas, and the generator too. The Listeroid is still sitting there. I'm thinking about GM-90 heads and lots of cylinder base gaskets, a carb and a spark plug system to convert this engine to natural gas....

[SHIPCHIEF]

I was just wondering...
I have a set of catalytic converters and mufflers from a URAL motorcycle.
The URAL has a 750CC twin engine rated about 44 HP.
I just gave one to Peter who has an ONAN 705CW, 7.5 Kw plant running on Natural gas with an IMPCO carb. (he upgraded).
I'm planning to use the other muffler & CAT set on my gasoline powered ONAN CCK 5 Kw plant.
Do any of you think the Catalytic converter will improve emissions on either engine?
The automotive 1.5" mufflers we are using are too big, and let a lot of exhaust noise thru. ONAN mufflers are rather small in the pipe size. The URAL mufflers are similarly small, and have little cats in separate pipes that fit between the head pipe and the muffler, 1.375" O.D.
Trail runs with the URAL mufflers have reduced noise very well. Peter's Kw output was not effected. We are wondering about the CATs. I suppose they need to be as close to the exhaust valve as possible to run hot enough to work?