Woo hoo!

[slowspeed]

Looking good Ade
Looks like you cold tap into the Stove flue to get rid of fumes
You have any waste oil ?(the stuff you dont want to but in the Lister)
add a drip feed into the stove
makes the wood last longer
check out my oil burner
Google
1234asdf1
looks like Mike will or wants to do auction for his engines ? 
Soooo
I did some looking and  have found a few engines over their that I need taken to Blackpool

[AdeV]

Looking good Ade
Looks like you cold tap into the Stove flue to get rid of fumes
You have any waste oil ?(the stuff you dont want to but in the Lister)
add a drip feed into the stove
makes the wood last longer
check out my oil burner
Google
1234asdf1

Interesting... I have some waste oil (about 25 gal - UK gal, that is), but only generate more when I service the car. And that 25 gal has all kinds of crap in it, from trans oil to diesel engine oil, probably some water... it's a mess. I wouldn't put it in the Lister, and TBH I'd be a bit wary of even burning it...

...but what the hell, so long as the fumes don't come back in, it'll probably be fine. 

looks like Mike will or wants to do auction for his engines ? 
Soooo
I did some looking and  have found a few engines over their that I need taken to Blackpool

You have a PM...

Cheers,
Ade.

[lowspeedlife]

how about some pictures of the ring gear setup Ade?


Scott R.

[AdeV]

how about some pictures of the ring gear setup Ade?

Of course, how could I refuse? 

Here's the pulley w/ ring gear fitted to the alternator:



I didn't take any pictures of cutting the keyway, as it was a dreadful abuse of a fine old pillar drill, which frankly didn't deserve to be treated that way. It did the job, though...

One has to admire English engineers. I have 2 starter motors here; a Ford (American company) one, and an Austin-Rover (English company). The Austin-Rover has a nice long nose on it, and is a physically smaller starter than the Ford one, and would be relatively easy to fit. Except for the fact it rotates the wrong way. No problem thinks I, I'll just make it a positive-earth system. But no - the starter turns the same way, no matter what the polarity of the connections! How did they do this  !!? And more to the point, WHY

So, back to the Ford unit, and after a bit of fettling with an angle grinder, I can just fit it in. Here's a bench test:



If the ammeter on the alternator is accurate, then when its turning over on the starter, I'm getting 6 volts! Woo!

The next job is to get the frame finished off, and the proper starter motor mount fabricated, then it can be assembled for its first proper test!

Question for the masses: Typically, how much current does the solenoid side of an auto starter circuit draw? I ask because I'd like to control the start via my Arduino - which will obviously require a relay. The Arduino experimenter's kit I got with the board came with a wimpy little relay - but I'm wondering if that (toy) relay would pass enough current to run the solenoid direct. If not, I'll use the toy relay to activate a full-size auto relay, which in turn will engage the solenoid.

[AdeV]

PS - I know those wires are far too wimpy to take the current required by the starter motor... they're only there to prove the concept! I'll use a proper heavy gauge starter wire for the real deal.

[Crofter]

The pull in current is quite high, perhaps 20 amps momentary and then only a few amps to "hold in" so you need a fair current capability or the solenoid will chatter.  If your voltage was dropping down to 6V your wires were definitely too small.

Reversing polarity does not reverse rotation since both field and armature polarity reverses. You would have had to swap brush leads to separately reverse just the field polarity, but the leads are usually too short without alteration.  In newer starters with perm. magnet field shoes changing polarity will reverse rotation. In any case that would not have worked for you since the starter drive clutch only engages in one rotation anyway!

[AdeV]

The pull in current is quite high, perhaps 20 amps momentary and then only a few amps to "hold in" so you need a fair current capability or the solenoid will chatter.  If your voltage was dropping down to 6V your wires were definitely too small.

The 6v was shown on the alternator's output... not input. However, the wires were getting warm, so I know they're under-sized for the application - by about a factor of 5.

Reversing polarity does not reverse rotation since both field and armature polarity reverses. You would have had to swap brush leads to separately reverse just the field polarity, but the leads are usually too short without alteration.  In newer starters with perm. magnet field shoes changing polarity will reverse rotation. In any case that would not have worked for you since the starter drive clutch only engages in one rotation anyway!

Ah, OK, so in fact the Ford starter must be a PM unit, as it reverses depending on the polarity. However, the solenoid still throws out whichever way it's connected...

Still; we shall see what happens. The solenoid was being a bit leery about letting go the wheel when power was removed, but some grease on the cogs seems to have cured that. I have a good feeling about this setup now 

[lowspeedlife]

how about some pictures of the ring gear setup Ade?

Of course, how could I refuse? 

Here's the pulley w/ ring gear fitted to the alternator:



I didn't take any pictures of cutting the keyway, as it was a dreadful abuse of a fine old pillar drill, which frankly didn't deserve to be treated that way. It did the job, though...

One has to admire English engineers. I have 2 starter motors here; a Ford (American company) one, and an Austin-Rover (English company). The Austin-Rover has a nice long nose on it, and is a physically smaller starter than the Ford one, and would be relatively easy to fit. Except for the fact it rotates the wrong way. No problem thinks I, I'll just make it a positive-earth system. But no - the starter turns the same way, no matter what the polarity of the connections! How did they do this  !!? And more to the point, WHY

So, back to the Ford unit, and after a bit of fettling with an angle grinder, I can just fit it in. Here's a bench test:



If the ammeter on the alternator is accurate, then when its turning over on the starter, I'm getting 6 volts! Woo!

The next job is to get the frame finished off, and the proper starter motor mount fabricated, then it can be assembled for its first proper test!

Question for the masses: Typically, how much current does the solenoid side of an auto starter circuit draw? I ask because I'd like to control the start via my Arduino - which will obviously require a relay. The Arduino experimenter's kit I got with the board came with a wimpy little relay - but I'm wondering if that (toy) relay would pass enough current to run the solenoid direct. If not, I'll use the toy relay to activate a full-size auto relay, which in turn will engage the solenoid.

UUUMMMMM??? no pictures there Ade, sorry !!


Scott R.

[AdeV]

I can see them.... both in the original post & your quote!

Try these links, let me know if there's a problem:

http://lister-engine.com/pics/ListerProjects/build/17-PulleyFitted.jpg

http://lister-engine.com/pics/ListerProjects/build/18-BenchTest.jpg

[lowspeedlife]

That's wierd, no pictures in your post but, in the quote of your post, in my post, the top half of two pictures appears, still could not see the ring gear set up.

really wierd.

  scott r.

[AdeV]

What do you see if you click the links in the above post? If you get 1/2 picture, try refreshing (F5 or CTRL+F5 for Internet Exploder; otherwise, whatever your browser needs)

[lowspeedlife]

No the links  didn't work for me either but i deleted every thing behind "pics/listerprojects" & was able to see all the pictures in your index. what is the diameter & weight of the pulley/ring gear assembly ?

Scott R.

[lowspeedlife]

And now I see them in the original post & all the quoted posts too? really wierd. hope i don't have a virus LOL

  Scott R.

[AdeV]

It sounds like a cache problem to me, one that presumably has gone away (or, at least, into abeyance).

The ring gear is 12" diameter (to the edge of the teeth) - in truth, an extra inch would have been useful, I can only just get the starter motor in alongside the alternator body. The pulley is nominally 10" diameter, I think it's actually a smidge more than that, but the effective dia of the belt will be 10".

Weight... sorry, I didn't weigh it. Best guess would be around 12kg (~25lbs). I don't intend to disassemble it again, if I can help it; the taper bush has cracked opposite the squeeze joint, I think it'll fall apart without much more provocation...

[Tom Reed]

Scott, I've had good results using a 30 amp headlight relay to trigger a starter relay.