I have a CF R175A that I've never started. Thought it was about time, so I did a limited teardown to see how everything works. I can see right away why these engines are famous for generating more noise than power. The camshaft drive gear has fully 0.020" backlash between the teeth. Flat cut teeth and backlash are a noisy combination!
One thing caught my eye, and that was the governor and fuel rack. I can see how the governor works, but try as I might, I could not get the fuel rack to move. Took out the injection pump and found the rack was stuck solid. Some wiggling lubricated with penetrating oil managed to free it, but it still takes probably 30-40 lbs of force to move it.
Anybody know anything about these injection pumps? The diagram included in the manual is virtually useless.
Thanks
Quinn
You might have to spend $25 and buy a new one.
The rack on my s195 was stuck on arrival. I disassembled the pump, cleaned it up and reassembled the pump. Works fine now.
Guys
This has nothing to do with single cylinder diesels. But I have had the experience of having the die in red diesel stick a injector pump fuel metering valve so tight I thought it had rusted in. A IH tractor I had to work on sat unused because of transmission issues for 3 years and the fuel leaked and also evaporated out of the injector pump. The valve stuck so tight it would not move. The engine ran at dead idle only. I disassembled the pump and to my amazement the red die was the glue that had locked up the valve. Of course when the valve stuck the pin that actuates it snapped off.............. >:( >:(
Billswan
Quote from: billswan on January 29, 2012, 09:16:49 PM
Guys
This has nothing to do with single cylinder diesels. But I have had the experience of having the die in red diesel stick a injector pump fuel metering valve so tight I thought it had rusted in. A IH tractor I had to work on sat unused because of transmission issues for 3 years and the fuel leaked and also evaporated out of the injector pump. The valve stuck so tight it would not move. The engine ran at dead idle only. I disassembled the pump and to my amazement the red die was the glue that had locked up the valve. Of course when the valve stuck the pin that actuates it snapped off.............. >:( >:(
Billswan
That's just not fair! So they managed to hide a tax in colored diesel after all! Bastards. >:(
Becareful forcing the rack as the parts are delicate in there. You might try pumping some fresh fuel through it. Remove the fitting that goes to the injector line and the spring and delivery valve under it. Put some penetrant or fuel in that end and mount it sideways in a vise with the inlet upwards. Put some fresh fuel in the inlet and push the operating plunger in. Luckily we have only had to deal with one that was stuck and it was stuck real good.
Stuck pump parts really like Auto Tranny Fluid. Soak in ATF and diesel and "Patience, Grasshopper".
Also heard Biodiesel is a heck of a solvent, but I can't speak from personal experience.
Ron.
I can't get it apart past the cam follower and delivery valve. Sonicated it for two hours yesterday in paint thinner and a surprising amount of what appears to be very fine casting sand came out. No sign of rust, but it appears it was assembled by someone who didn't bother to clean the parts first.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/quinnf_01/Lister%20Diesel%20Stuff/IP2.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/quinnf_01/Lister%20Diesel%20Stuff/IP3.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/quinnf_01/Lister%20Diesel%20Stuff/IP4.jpg)
q.
That looks like my pump. In mine there was a 2nd screw on the bottom, similar to the one shown in your picture. If you remove that the guts should come out of the pump.
quinnf,
"Sonicated". Great word!
Sand is bad news, there is NO room between the barrel and plunger for debris. Sonic is cool ;) wish I had one for such work.
There is no second screw in this one, and I noticed when I dissassembled it that the tip of the screw was mushroomed. That doesn't look right. That and the grit. . .
The sonicator was at work, not being used. Needed to be exercised.
Anybody know if parts are available for these engines any longer? I'd just as soon invest in a new IP and keep this one for spare.
q.
Quote from: quinnf on January 30, 2012, 11:05:52 AM
SNIP
Anybody know if parts are available for these engines any longer? I'd just as soon invest in a new IP and keep this one for spare.
q.
Don't know where you are at, but you could contact the person who constantly keeps this Seattle CL ad (http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tls/2775580421.html) running.
Hardy diesel still has some parts. hardydiesel.com
my zs1105 had broken pin inside pump. worked fine though. from china factory i could get whole pump, not pin.. hopefully all parts in these machines wont get stuck.
Well, I managed to get a new injection pump from China. Was totally unable to get the old pump to come apart. George said he wanted to take a whack at it (literally), and he called me back within minutes of opening the box I sent him to report that he got it apart. He was gloating just a little, I think. Apparently the technique involves whacking the pump on the end grain of a piece of hardwood firewood with enough authority that the parts come out. I tried that, holding the pump body in a pair of channel locks and coming down on a piece of plywood on the groj slab with a full arm swing. Did it a number of times and no joy. I had preminitions of some little part richocheting around the groj and seeking its maximum entropy in a pile of sawdust somewhere, so maybe I didn't whack it hard enough. I can't argue with success. George seems to have the technique.
Anyway, I added 2 quarts of 40 wt., put the new pump in, primed same and started the little R175A up first smoke at 3:10 pm on Saturday. Lots easier than starting a new 'roid.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/quinnf_01/Lister%20Diesel%20Stuff/CFR175ARunning.jpg)
(And, yes, the engine is clamped to the work table with four big C-clamps that are outside the field of view)
But Oh My Freaking Goodness! (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/quinnf_01/Lister%20Diesel%20Stuff/OhMyGoodness.jpg) that sucker is loud!
That aside, the engine runs smooth and very steady regardless of how hard I cram a 2x4 against the flywheel. The governor seems to be very well tuned, and it really puts out the torque, but makes a sound like a carbide tipped woodpecker attacking a tin shed. My 90 year old Dad who sustained major hearing loss during WWII piloting B-17s tottered out to the groj and sat down in a lawn chair to watch the goings on.
When I shut the engine down he said, "That son of a gun is sure loud."
Typical understatement from one who's been there and back.
Anyway, I need to locate an 8-rib serpentine belt now. I dimly recall someone publishing a URL of a site that cross-references dimensions and part numbers for serpentine belts. Search of this site didn't turn up anything, and I tried Gates Rubber, the usual suspect, and struck out. Anybody know anything, or was I just hallucinating again?
Quinn
Welcome to the barrel half full of hammers rollin down a hill club, otherwise known as the "dark side"
With the low power output of the r175, I'd think a standard auto 6 rib from your local parts store would be plenty (and cheaper).
Where did you order the parts from, and how much did they cost!?!?!?!
I have an r170 I'd love to get spares for.
Brett,
George at Utterpower got me in touch with his associate in China who sent me the part gratis. George didn't, and doesn't, owe me any favors, and neither does Lee, but they decided they'd use this as an opportunity to see how well they can get parts through Fed Ex to the U.S. I'm starting a new thread to make others aware that parts are, or will shortly be, available. Check it out. http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2631.0 (http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2631.0)
Quinn
Quote from: bschwartz on February 21, 2012, 08:48:59 PM
With the low power output of the r175, I'd think a standard auto 6 rib from your local parts store would be plenty (and cheaper).
Correct, and the numbers are pretty easy to decipher once you understand how the belt number is coded.
8 rib belts are becoming more and more common, many pick-ups now use 8 rib.
If you want a cheap source of serpentine belts, hit your local pick-n-pull salvage yard. I will walk through the doors with a couple DOZEN good used serpentine belts (various sizes), and toss the guy $5 and we are good. I often grab various ribbed serpentine pulleys for just $2 each. A ribbed crankshaft damper is $5.
Quinnf,
I just got my little R175 started also !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a802tB0Bk80&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a802tB0Bk80&feature=related)
I can assure you, that 175 of yours is a lot quieter than the 195's and 1115's. ;D
Your post got me thinking....
For those with engines in storage, how concerned should we be about frozen injector pumps, rusting, and any other bad things that can happen to an engine sitting still for a year or more ?
Maybe it's better to uncrate, fill with oil and run them a bit to get the oil throughout. Then store them with a full tank. ???
Any ideas ?
veggie
Regarding your idea of using a serpentine belt to drive an alternator....
Please keep us posted on how you mount the pulley.
My 175 came with a bolt-on "B" section pulley that would be very hard to replicate.
I would love to find a method of mounting a serpentine sheave.
veggie
As long as you purge your pump with good clean diesel , I think your golden. I believe some sort of cheap rust preventative (or quite possibly lack thereof) is the culprit. I've had diesels sit for years, and fire right up.
Ron.
Yes, but this one, when I disassembled the pump, smelled of solvent, not diesel. So it either hadn't been run, or had been run on somethin funky (a technical term). I really didn't expect the pump to be shipped with anything other than #2 in it. So it sat for about 3 years inside its crate. In retrospect, shoulda' uncrated it, oiled and fueled it and started it up, then left it with fuel and lube oil in it. Live and learn.
On second thought, you're right, 6-rib is fine. Was thinking I'd be driving off the flywheel rim and I'd prefer a wider and more stable belt for that, but then I realized this isn't a 'roid. Duh! So I need to step down to drive the ST-5 at 1800 rpm. I found a spare 7 3/8" 6-rib SK mount pulley for a 38 mm shaft that I got from George/Joel with my first ST-5 and I think I'll turn down a round of 6" aluminum to give me about a 25% step up. I'm thinking 2250 rpm on the engine. Not sure just yet until I really listen to it fastened down. But I think I can turn a ledge on the back of the round to engage the locating bosses on the flywheel, then drill the round to match the mounting holes for the B pulley that came with the R175A.
Nice clear video. I envy you your electric starter. That would make remote starting within an insulated box a lot easier. I might use my Gast 4AM to start this engine when I get around to that phase of the project unless I can come up with a compact 'lectric starter.
I really like my 'roids for lots of reasons, but the little R175 is a tight, compact package that seems to be pretty well put together, even if it does sound like a coffee can full of rocks on a paint shaker.
Quinn
"it does sound like a coffee can full of rocks on a paint shaker."
Joel was kind enough to send me an audio clip of a Changfa before I decided on the Listeroid many years ago I think Quinn's description is a gem, reminded me of the "shock and awe" I felt when listening to that audio file.
But it's a small enough package that one could kludge up some sort of enclosure that would take care of most of the racket. I keep envisioning a square tubular steel frame with removable plywood panels mounted on rubber stand-offs lined with something sound absorbing like old shag carpet. It's all part of the adventure.
I keep asking myself, "WWRGD?"
What Would Red Green Do?
Quinn
Quote from: veggie on February 28, 2012, 11:06:22 AM
Quinnf,
I just got my little R175 started also !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a802tB0Bk80&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a802tB0Bk80&feature=related)
I can assure you, that 175 of yours is a lot quieter than the 195's and 1115's. ;D
Your post got me thinking....
For those with engines in storage, how concerned should we be about frozen injector pumps, rusting, and any other bad things that can happen to an engine sitting still for a year or more ?
Maybe it's better to uncrate, fill with oil and run them a bit to get the oil throughout. Then store them with a full tank. ???
Any ideas ?
veggie
Veggie,
I'm hearing a noise in the background in the video of your R175 running that I don't like. It is present when your camera is facing the gear side in the first segment. It is also there to my ears noticeably in the 1500 RPM segment. Might not be a bad idea to yank the crankcase cover off behind that lovely starter and see what it looks like in there. It appears you didn't put water in the hopper. You DID put oil in it I hope? ;) It looked like the oil pressure indicator was popped up and that means there is oil pressure.
I also have one of those engines but mine is a JiangDong R175A, and didn't come with eclectic start. That really loud injector knock at low speed is normal but it can take out a crank bearing if you run it too slow all the time unless you retard the IP by adding shims behind it. Slow won't properly lube the bearing in the large end of the conrod either once the oil gets hot and thin. I like mine now that I have the bugs out of it. It is a real fuel miser. Closest thing I own to an engine that will run off the smell of an oily rag. :D
I hear a noise also.
Henry
I am aware of the noise.
Something like an intermittent rattle.?
Disappears above 1800 rpm ?
When I installed the muffler, there was a rattling item like welding slag or a rock inside.
Hopefully that's all it is.
racavictim, your suggestion to remove the inspection cover an look around is a good one.
What else could rattle like that? These engines do not have counter balance shafts.
Perhaps the governor ?
veggie
quinnf,
Here's your engine in a small box set up as a CHP unit.
The big red thing on the top of the engine is an exhaust/water heat exchanger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiYXCLXwlv4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiYXCLXwlv4&feature=related)
veggie
Here's another being mounted in an enclosure....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz2-YNnSMts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz2-YNnSMts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8a2iONNlP0&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8a2iONNlP0&feature=channel)
veggie
Quote from: veggie on February 28, 2012, 06:55:02 PM
quinnf,
Here's your engine in a small box set up as a CHP unit.
The big red thing on the top of the engine is an exhaust/water heat exchanger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiYXCLXwlv4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiYXCLXwlv4&feature=related)
veggie
Hey, he's got a VW spin on diesel fuel filter on there! I plan to use one on my rattler, I already have one on my old Belarus,
they are easy to find filters for and NAPA has 'em 2 for 1 on Fridays.
Ron.
Tieing the ribbons on this thread, check out the announcement of parts availability here:
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2631.0
Quinn