Hi all,
I am now un-crating my listeroid with plans to get her running.
any advice or suggestions are welcomed.
regards,
Sean
Hi Sean,
Welcome to the world of Listeroid owners.
Like us, your IQ just dropped 20 points from your wife's point of view ;D
Something to check which many people miss is the reed in the main crankcase breather.
Remove the single bolt holding the concave cover and make sure the reeds are blocking the three breather holes when in the static position.
Mine were bent upward slightly making it impossible to seal the crankcase vacuum on the piston up-stroke.
veggie
Oh yes....another thing.
The GM90's (like many Listeroids) use a straight threaded plug for an oil drain plug.
The thread is British Standard. (Straight thread)
The Indians use "sealing string" to seal the threads. >:(
Take out the plug as a sample and go to your local hose/fittings supplier (In Canada it's Greenline Hose) and get a proper BS threaded plug with a rubberized gasket washer.
This will seal against the flat face at the end of the threads.
Costs about $7 and it's much nicer to work with.
veggie
And on some that reed valve is plugged up w/ green Indian paint.
Assuming you know all the really basic things like making sure every nook and cranny are checked for sand, and turning the fuel rack adjuster nut way down so you don't get an overspeed when you start it up for the first time. Bleeding the fuel lines are a bear the first time, too.
George at Utterpower.com used to have flanges w/ a spot milled out for a simple Napa thermostat for a decent price. Don't know if he still does.
Welcome!
Marcus
Thank you for the tips. I will have to see if I can locate a manual for this unit to see how to make the fuel rod adjustment. And for that matter just how to get her going.
It seems simple enough, would hate to have an overspeed related problem.
Hi SDWATT,
I'm really surprised no one has steered you to the CD that is available at http://www.utterpower.com/products/utterpower-cd/ (http://www.utterpower.com/products/utterpower-cd/).
Casey
sdwatt,
The governor adjusting screw is shown in this picture.
Unscrew it (remove spring tension) to slow the engine.
In this picture, the engine is set at the design speed of 900 rpm.
Unscrew your adjuster so there's less threads extending than this example and you should be ok.
If you over do it (less then 750) the engine speed might hunt a bit because the spring is designed for 900.
veggie
While my experiance is nowhere near what some of these other fellows have done I have been in a few Indian clones (4) and they have taught me to trust the assemblers not one bit. Took them all completely down for cleaning and inspection and for one reason or another in each case I was glad I did. Bad assembly, dirt, parts with major defects, just plain wrong parts in any combination including all of the above. For no longer than it takes the full inspection and tear down route gets the nod from me.
Thank you all for the advice so far.
I have cleaned out the internals and cleaned up the ancillary outer connections with better hoses and clamps etc.
I am currently looking for a suitable belt driven oil pump with external oil filter assembly. Advice?
The internals were not as dirty as I have seen videos of but dirty enough to have caused long term issues.
I would like to secure or affix a rare earth magnet somewhere on the inside to pick up anything metallic etc(filings, etc). I am trying to locate a drain plug that would have a magnet embedded in the end. Advice?
I did have to add a washer to the drain plug. Apparently those chaps can cast an engine but have not heard of a washer other than animal hair?
The bloody "bondo" is driving me mad. all of the access ports now look ragged due to the bondo falling off when touched.
One thing that is a little concerning is that when I hand roll the engine I can hear the individual bearings rolling around in the race's. I am using 10w30 in the crank case and they are saturated. I just assumed that hearing the bearings is unusual? maybe not. I am being very OCD about this though.
I have not started her up yet. I am just hand cranking her and swapping out the oil to remove any contamination. Prudence may pay off in the long run.
Looking forward to any advice.
can someone sell me a digital copy of that illustrious cd?
canada post being on strike has made it unlikely I will order the cd by snail mail.
Quotecan someone sell me a digital copy of that illustrious cd?
This would be an issue to address with George.
Casey
Thank you!
I will ask George if he could do that.
Glad you're taking the time to clean it up. But I'd recommend a complete tear down after you hear it run. There are places grit can hide that you simply can't get to without a complete teardown. It doesn't take very long to take it apart once you have the flywheels off. Maybe an afternoon to reassemble it.
Re: the bearing noise, TRB bearings are great but those engines tend to have a lot of bearing noise as they turn over. The engine will never sound like a British Lister. That's the price you pay for not having the plain bearings.
Quinn
The "bearing noise" you are referring to is valve train gear noise, which will be loud due to straight cut gears, but is probably really loud due to excessive gear clearance/backlash. If the TRB main bearings were really that loud they would last ten minutes. I would do a full teardown, I did and I am positive if I had not, I would have been replacing most of the major parts within a couple hundred hours of operation.
Quote from: SDWATT on June 26, 2011, 07:31:26 PM
I am currently looking for a suitable belt driven oil pump with external oil filter assembly. Advice?
I am going to use an old Ford F150 Pickup power steering pump (because it is what is laying around for free)
They are not really high volume, but oh well. That's fine. The guts from the pressure valve (in the outlet side) need to be removed.
Really, if you get creative you can come up with almost anything...
I made something very similar to this to fill an overhead bulk oil tank (in a service shop) from 55 gallon drums. Not the same, but close.
http://veggear.blogspot.com/2009/04/here-is-how-to-make-your-own-waste-oil.html
Yes, any small gear pump will probably do the job.
If you drive it with an electric motor, just make sure you drive it at the right speed for the capacity of the filter.
In my case I used a belt drive to slow the gear pump to 500 rpm in order to give me about 2 gallons per minute of flow through the filter.
Also consider putting a pressure gauge on the filter inlet piping and make a note of the pressure when the filter is new.
This way you have an indicator as the filter clogs up.
I put a Tee on the crankcase drain plug and piped it to the pump inlet.
The pump is driven from a pulley on the listeroid crankshaft.
cheers,
veggie
Quote from: veggie on September 27, 2011, 10:18:47 AM
Also consider putting a pressure gauge on the filter inlet piping and make a note of the pressure when the filter is new.
This way you have an indicator as the filter clogs up.
Hmm... It will be relavent to flow, but most oil filters have a built in by-pass if you exceed pressure differential. For instance, if the valve is set at 10 psi differential and your oil pressure gauge before and after read 50psi and 40psi respectively, the internal bypass may open (10 psi drop)
But hold your horses... your filter would have to be AMAZINGLY plugged to open the internal bypass. I'll bet you can run a oil filter for 500 hours and you won't see the pressure climb but just a few PSI.
It is VERY difficult to plug a modern automotive style full-flow oil filter. Not impossible, but you would need to be VERY negligent in your servicing and maintenance to make it happen.
If the filter head goes into bypass mode, you probably wont here it due to engine noise.
A gauge is the only way to know if the filter back-pressure is rising.
I have a 0-30 psi gauge on my filter which currently reads 5 psi when running. However I have not run it long enough to agree or disagree with your comments.
veggie
Quote from: veggie on September 28, 2011, 09:22:14 PM
I have a 0-30 psi gauge on my filter which currently reads 5 psi when running.
You would need another gauge on the outlet side to measure pressure drop.
5 psi on inlet AND outlet = 0 psi drop through the filter.
5 psi on the inlet and 0 psi on the outlet = a 5 psi pressure drop through the filter.
Linktex
If the discharge of the filter is into the crankcase (NO PRESSURE) then a second gauge is not necessry. The pressure on the discharge side of the filter never changes.
So....only one gauge is required.
as shown in this vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzrJx6Sh90 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzrJx6Sh90)
Veggie
Quote from: veggie on October 03, 2011, 10:41:37 PM
If the discharge of the filter is into the crankcase (NO PRESSURE) then a second gauge is not necessry.
Have you considered plumbing the filtered oil (under pressure) to areas that need more lubrication?
I have considered adding a jet to spray the underside of the piston crown, as nearly all other modern diesels do.
Here is a link:
http://www.utterpower.com/turbo_6_1.htm
This is from George's CD.
It's got a turbocharger, a starter, a remote oil pump and custom oil plumbing.
I read it every now-and-then....I alread copied Henry's starter.
Now I'm copying his Turbo. ;)
Quote from: LincTex on October 12, 2011, 05:55:20 AM
Have you considered plumbing the filtered oil (under pressure) to areas that need more lubrication?
I have considered adding a jet to spray the underside of the piston crown, as nearly all other modern diesels do.
That's a good idea.
The GM90's have a pressure pump in the crankcase which feeds the con rod bearing, however the TRB's are splash lube.
I suppose a couple of tubes could be run to the main bearings to provide a positive oil feed.
veggie
Quote from: veggie on October 12, 2011, 08:12:29 AM
I suppose a couple of tubes could be run to the main bearings to provide a positive oil feed.
I doubt it's needed - TRB's need little more than an occasional misting.
The GM90 has dubious pressure lube to the rod bearings, although it is pretty slick.
it has a ring dam that holds oil centrifugally around the main bearing, and oil moves by centrifugal force out the crank to the rod journal.
Not very much pressure, but it is a force of nature, and continuous as long as the engine runs and the pump keeps filling the ring dam.
I'm not sure if it's better than dippers, which never fail unless the oil gets low.
The ring dam slinger squeeks the rod bearing when the pump fails....but the oil would have to get very low before the bearing went dry as long as the pump works.
Take your pick I guess. Something to like in both systems.
SHIPCHIEF,
Actually the GM90 has a pressure lube system dedicated to the con rod brg.
A plunger pump runs on an eccentric actuator on the crankshaft.
It's the blue item in the picture below...
veggie
Thanks!!
I misunderstood. I must have been looking at poorer pictures. :-[
Still, If you replace "ring dam that holds oil centrifugally" with 'oil rotoseal coupler' ...I still think my previous post has merit.
The plunger does squirt oil into the coupler, but after the squirt pulse is over, centrifugal force is always there pushing the oil outward to the bearing.
I sure would like to figure out a way to adapt pressure lube to my 25/2 rod & main bearings. Maybe I could drill the crank the next time I have it out ::)
the idea of those dippers throwing dirty unfiltered oil around the the inside of the engine and all...
I installed a "slinger" type oiler on my 6/1 filtered the oil supply and found to much oil in areas can be a problem. Mine would slobber terrable with the rod oil slinger in operation. I never could get it to break in. I dissconnected the slinger oil supply and it cured most of it. The abundant oil supply appears to be flooding the underside piston with more than the piston and rings could handle. I am not sure but I believe the original Listers may have fought this. Dippers were sometimes installed to slice instead of splash, A shield in the crankcase to prevent splash, some had hollow dippers some not. I am not sure if some engines had minor piston and ring changes to accomadate the abundtant oil supply. No facts just what I have observed your oil may do differently.
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii31/xyzers/xyzers%20stuff/SLINGERFARCROP.jpg)
XYZR;
That's a very nice picture of a very nice piece of work. Too bad it didn't turn out like you planned.
I've got your Idler gear bolt, and the plain upper bearing inserts, fed by ASHWAMEGH hollow dippers (drilled bolts)
I can't help thinking some additional tinkering could have made it work, like a spray shield over the ring dam or something. did you remove the dipper during the trial?
As with my turbo experiment, I presume you did it for the fun of trying to make it better. These engines are a kick to work on.