Seriously, I'd like to know why alot of people think so highly of Changfas. I look on Craigslist often thinking I'll buy one if I see one for sale. But this is why I'm confused. Consider that there are tons of small 2 cylinder "name brand" engines out there like Cat, Perkins, Kubota and Yanmar. They put out about 11-14 hp so you'd be able to run a 5-7.5KW generator head, running about 2400 rpm, give or take.
For the most part, if one of these little engines needs something like a bearing, injector, or whatever, you can just call up the company and have what you need in a few days. I'm pretty sure if I had a Changfa and needed some bearings for it, they'd be hard to come by.. expecially 10 years from now.
I understand that a few years ago when they were legal to imprt they were a good deal, cheap, low rpm and plentiful parts supply. That is not the case today.
So.. convince me to buy a Changfa instead of for instance, a Yanmar like Surplus Center sells.
Inquirying minds want to know ;D
Randy B
They're still a relative bargain to me regardless of the Brand sticker on them.
There may be some shops over there that did a less than acceptable job assembling
them but all the research I've done would lead me to believe most use the same
parts stream. You can still get parts and yes they are more expensive, Hardy Diesel
is one example. Buy a set of Bearings, a head gasket and rings.......sounds like another
hobby where you end up with a spare engine. Oh well, better to have it and not need it
than to need and not have it.
If you can afford a Yanmar then I'd get one, they're great engines. I'd have a Lombardini
but the budget for experimentation won't stretch that far.
because the changfa is just one tough little sonofabeach thats why!
the idi versions will burn just about anything flammable,
the engine will do far more than what it is rated at, and they
are relatively easy to work on.
as for parts, you are correct in that down the road that might be a problem
however that is a problem a few are working on, and i am one of them.
now comparing to the yanmar
the yanmar at what 800 bucks is an excellent buy, however it is also of limited supply
when those are gone then what? pay 3 or 4 grand for one? and while parts likely will be available for some
time for the yanmar/kubota/various other japanese engine's, the price they command can be very dear.
some of those injection pumps cost nearly half of what the surplus price is for the whole engine.
many of those engine's require special tooling to work on them as well.
its really kind of an apples to oranges sort of thing, one needs to consider what exactly his needs are, what his expectations
are, and what he wants to spend i suppose.
no one engine is a perfect solution to all applications, every engine has its strong points and its weak points of course.
you just pick your poison and then live with it. :)
as for all the rhetoric about one engine over another, the changfa thing is basically just bantor between the listeroid boys
and us changfa boys,, kind of like a chevy vs ford sort of thing.
so all the while we are going back and forth in a pissing contest, my ford is better than your chevy,,, new boys show up with the
japanese engine's,, sort of like when the little honda car's showed up and the track and started giving us ford and chevy guys trouble.
so do your own research and then make your own decision, and then live with the consequences is the best advice i can give you
good luck
bob g
I am not sure what you are asking exactly but options are limited for engines that will serve long hours in off grid application. Baised upon what I know and what I read I would put stock in a Changfa running at 1500 RPM over anything else you mentioned running at 2500 when it comes to long term reliability. I belive in slow speed, and being able to use recycled fuels. However I would not pay what some are asking for them currently. I dont live off grid but if I did my real choice would be nothing you mentioned but instead a CS Lister, Witte, Bamfords, anything that is cast iron, diesel, runs slow, and is simple to repair.
just to add a bit more, from this old fart
if all the engine's had electric start...
i could see me able to use all of these engine's successfully
beit a lister/oid, changfa, or any of the japanese diesels, the german or italian as well as probably several others.
i chose the changfa at a time when my choice was either a changfa or a listeroid, the changfa appeared to be the winning
design to me based on several factors.
first cost was less than half of a listeroid, actually on a hp vs cost basis the changfa was about a quarter the price
the fit and finish of the changfa looked cleaner
the compact size was a factor
and having electric start from the factory was a determining factor as well.
for my intended application it just made better sense for me to go with the changfa
having said that, would i do it all over again, if my choice was between a changfa and a kubota or yanmar? maybe/maybe not.
my needs as designed required no more than two 1 hour runs per day, and i had planned on burning a 50/50 mix of waste motor oil
and pump diesel well filtered, so even an engine with a 5k hour lifespan would last me a very long time.
in a perfect world i would now go with a single cylinder engine, with an sae bellhousing, and a single brg outboard brush genhead.
it would be epa approved, run at 1800rpm, and would sell for a grand give or take a little (for the engine) but sadly we don't live in a perfect world and such an engine likely would cost me 4-5 grand or more today.
so until that day comes, i guess i will stick with the changfa s195 and work on the parts issue.
bob g
All the guys that have Changfas just have Lister/oid envy ::)
The reason I like the changfa type engines so much is:
1. They are grossly under rated. My DI S195 genset put out 8.6 Kw for over an hour with no failures. Not bad for an S195.
2. Very easy to set up and work on.
3. Governor is very accurate.
4. Pressure lubed crank.
5. More compact Than a lister or listeroid
6. Parts are inexpensive
7. The Color. i like it better than lister green ;D
8. Can be used for miuch more applications than just gensets.
9. Lighter
10. Less light flickering when using an AC genhead.
I been around listeroids before GM-90's and Changfa's. I thought they were the greatest engines since sliced bread. Than I had an opportunity to play with GM-90. And I saw a much more refined engine. And you don't hear much problems with them. I bought a GM-90 and loved it. But it did not have electric start and was too large for my application. Well when I recieved my first S195 and put it to use I understood why people were so excited about these engines.
No engine is perfect. Just figure out what application you will be using it for. And what short comings you are willing to live with on a type of engine.
Henry
Quote from: hwew on December 02, 2010, 10:43:00 AM
The reason I like the changfa type engines so much is:
1. They are grossly under rated. My DI S195 genset put out 8.6 Kw for over an hour with no failures. Not bad for an S195.
2. Very easy to set up and work on.
3. Governor is very accurate.
4. Pressure lubed crank.
5. More compact Than a lister or listeroid
6. Parts are inexpensive
7. The Color. i like it better than lister green ;D
8. Can be used for miuch more applications than just gensets.
9. Lighter
10. Less light flickering when using an AC genhead.
I been around listeroids before GM-90's and Changfa's. I thought they were the greatest engines since sliced bread. Than I had an opportunity to play with GM-90. And I saw a much more refined engine. And you don't hear much problems with them. I bought a GM-90 and loved it. But it did not have electric start and was too large for my application. Well when I recieved my first S195 and put it to use I understood why people were so excited about these engines.
No engine is perfect. Just figure out what application you will be using it for. And what short comings you are willing to live with on a type of engine.
Henry
Did it have anything to due with the headlight? ;D
oh man!!
we have been found out!
its always been about the headlight! 8)
actually its about design mostly, the changfa is about a generation or two more advanced than the lister
having a gear/rotor oil pump, crossdrilled crankshaft, and the ability to have not only bypass but full flow lube filtration
is a significant design improvement that ought to be recognized.
the 195 and its larger brothers have counterbalance shafts which makes the engine's remarkably smooth operators not requiring
a ton of concrete that some of the lister/oids seem to either need or benefit from.
the electric start option on a 6/1 costs almost as much as a 195, certainly as much as a r175changfa
the single biggest complaint with the changfa is one of noise, they are noisy bastards let their be no doubt about that, you won't be running one in a living area for sure.
aside from the issue of being a loud little engine, you just don't hear much about the engine's doing anything but just work and work and work some more.
so far i have perhaps about 50 hours on my 195 powered trigen, those 50 hours are much like 50 hours at indy in that the engine has been in testing for the vast majority of this time, and ran at max load, right at the brittle edge, full rack, hot as hell, pedal to the metal operation. the only issue i had which i resolved was failure of the head gskt.
bear in mind the engine is rated at 12hp continuous and 13.2 for a 1 hour rating, i routinely run at well over 8 kwe output for long periods of time. it is thermally stable, burns cleanly and just keeps on doing what it does best.
i suspect my 50 hours of dyno like testing equates to probably well over a thousand hours of normal half load operation typical of most of these engine's
am i biased? yes!
was i always this biased? no!
there was a time where i was not happy with the engine, that was when i kept losing head gksts at just over 7kwe output, but once i resolved that issue with the help of the gent at "gaskets to go" i am now back on board and an ardent supporter of the engine.
for my application, i can't imagine a better suited engine, at least i haven't found one yet, at least that i can get my hands on.
bob g
Quote from: bschwartz on December 02, 2010, 07:14:45 AM
All the guys that have Changfas just have Lister/oid envy ::)
I have a listeroid but I always seem to use a Changfa type or my Perkins for power outages.
I don't have to babysit them, no oil or fuel leaks, very easy starters, lightweight compared to a roid, dependable, and fairly fuel efficient. They will operate on various kinds of fuel mixtures.
Changfa types are loud but can be tamed down with insulation and enclosures. I would rather put up with some noise than be without power during a ice storm during the winter.
I will always have a Changfa type engine and I have multiples of them along with some spare parts. The only thing I have ever replaced on a Changfa type engine was a high pressure fuel line to the injector.
Bob g has it right - LONG LIVE THE MIGHTY CHANGFA, and they will!
Flywheel
Yes, I have often heard they are LOUD. Can this be muted by a large muffler? or are they just LOUD no matter what you do?
Randy B
Quote from: flywheel on December 02, 2010, 11:22:59 AM
Bob g has it right - LONG LIVE THE MIGHTY CHANGFA, and they will!
Look at all the NOISE you started!
They've got a spur cut gear set and a counter balance shaft or 2 that contribute to the noise.
there are 4 major sources of noise
exhaust, intake, geartrain and diesel knock
the exhaust is easy, there are mufflers to make that dead quiet
the intake is a bit more difficult to tame, but can be done remarkably well with a resonator
the gear train is even more difficult as the gears are spur cut/ square teeth, so you typically
either insulate or enclose the engine or live with the noise. some of us are working on various
fixes to this problem.
the diesel knock is just a fact of life with a diesel, insulate/enclose/ignore, however there might be
some abatement with changes in timing, or cam profiles but that can be expensive for the latter.
so basically the exhaust and intake noise, both significant and responsible for about half of the noise is easily
and economically taken care of. gear train noise and diesel knock which accounts for about the other half of the noise
is a bit more difficult to abate,
bob g
I haven't had to disassemble the changfa fuel pump,, however from what i have seen posted in pic's it
is very straight forward and easy proposition
removal of the cylinder head is as follows
i nut to remove the valve cover from the stud,
another nut on the same stud that holds down the rocker shaft assy
remove the rocker assy, and pull out the pushrods
fuel lines from the injector,
intake and exhaust 2 bolts each, sometimes 3 on the exhaust of the larger engine's
4 nuts off the head studs
and slide the head off
if the engine is a mounted at a good working height, it takes maybe 5 minutes to remove the head.
once the head is off, you remove the starter if equipped and if it is rear mounted, and remove the rear cover
unbolt the conrod big end and shove the piston and rod out, maybe another 5 minutes to do this.
maybe a couple minutes more to remove the carbon ridge first?
they are fairly simple engines to work on in my opinion
bob g
In the late 90s, I was working on a homestead that had no grid power available (well, for 20 grand I could get it). So, since I had to drill a well, I needed power (too deep for any windmill I could get my hands on) and I wanted power for things like washing machines and such. So, I studied what was available and what I could afford.
For less than 3 grand delivered, I got a 10KW generator with the china diesel on it. Electric start with alternator, ready to run. I chose the brush type genhead for simplicity and repairability. Nothing else new could come close for price and value. I didn't have the option of used equipment, nothing available around here.
Since spare parts came with the rig, it was the right one for me. It is currently sitting in a horse trailer patiently waiting for spring. The trailer will become an insulated portable generator house. My tentative plan is to add my secondary solar power setup to the mix too.
Good engine for a good price.
Quote from: Randybee1 on December 02, 2010, 11:31:36 AM
Yes, I have often heard they are LOUD. Can this be muted by a large muffler? or are they just LOUD no matter what you do?
Randy B
My Changfa might be loud,
But yer Briggs and stratten is blowed up,,again
I gots power and you aint,,,
And I can wear ear muffs ;D
Ya they are pretty loud and like the other poster said the exhaust is about the least of it.
Yep, I put a great big muffler on my S1100 and although the exhaust is quiet, it still rattles and knocks like the Devil! It's going to have to live in it's own little detached house for sure.
Other than that, it's like the Energizer Bunny, and it'll happily run on just about anything greasy that will pour.
Ron
Pretty little Changfas all in a row, holding down my garage floor. New preban 1115's, I still remember the Scout motto - Always be prepared.
flywheel
what a beautiful sight,
it brings a tear to my eye!
you must be a proud papa there flywheel
;)
bob g
This is what the injection pump looks like for the Chinese horizontal diesel engines, slightly smaller than what is used on the roids.
flywheel
Quote from: flywheel on December 02, 2010, 10:12:27 PM
Pretty little Changfas all in a row, holding down my garage floor. New preban 1115's, I still remember the Scout motto - Always be prepared.
flywheel
Gee whiz Flywheel, me thinks you suffer from OCD. Obsessive Changfa Disorder. ;) Do they just start to reproduce if more than one are left alone for a while? So what's it like to live in Changrala? Or is that Changfala? ;D
That is the exact same model 1115 I bought but I only got one and I'm finally using it. I sure wish I had a second as a 'spare' or perhaps to use as a breeder engine. :D
Nice!
Oh, and they have a headlight... what other engine comes with a headlight? ;D
Quote from: NevadaBlue on December 03, 2010, 02:11:49 AM
Oh, and they have a headlight... what other engine comes with a headlight? ;D
a kubota.
Alright, you guys convinced me to get one if I see one for sale. But I have to warn ya, if my wife sees me bringing home ONE MORE DIESEL ENGINE... she's gonna hunt you guys down and do ..I don't know what.. but you better pray, pray hard is all I can say ;D
Randy B (being "coerced" into buying another engine)
You guys are PUSHERS!.. didn't the cops have a slogan back in the 70's? Called "TIP", turn in a pusher? and all this time I thought they were talking about drug dealers..silly me!
Wives are overated
Diesel aint ;D
A guy in cali. has 2 changfas $300 each
PM me ill give you his info
Quote from: Randybee1 on December 03, 2010, 03:12:00 AM
Alright, you guys convinced me to get one if I see one for sale. But I have to warn ya, if my wife sees me bringing home ONE MORE DIESEL ENGINE... she's gonna hunt you guys down and do ..I don't know what.. but you better pray, pray hard is all I can say ;D
Its easy to sneak another one home - just give her a couple hundred and while she is out shopping bring it home and hide it!
Randy B (being "coerced" into buying another engine)
You guys are PUSHERS!.. didn't the cops have a slogan back in the 70's? Called "TIP", turn in a pusher? and all this time I thought they were talking about drug dealers..silly me!
Heck, yes! What flywheel said, just sneak it in while she's gone. I have so much junk and crap irreplaceable equipment around that new stuff will just blend in and She never notices ;D
Ron
Quote from: vdubnut62 on December 03, 2010, 10:08:38 AM
Heck, yes! What flywheel said, just sneak it in while she's gone. I have so much junk and crap irreplaceable equipment around that new stuff will just blend in and She never notices ;D
Ron
Yeah, pretty funny! One year I went out and bought a 20 ton shop press. I assembled it and put in the corner of the garage. Figured my wife would never know about it since it blended it i with all the other "stuff". I swear it wasn't in there for more than 3 days when my wife asked "What's that big red thing" :-\
Anyway, I agree, another engine probably would not be noticed!
Ra andy B
Quote from: Randybee1 on December 03, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: vdubnut62 on December 03, 2010, 10:08:38 AM
Heck, yes! What flywheel said, just sneak it in while she's gone. I have so much junk and crap irreplaceable equipment around that new stuff will just blend in and She never notices ;D
Ron
Yeah, pretty funny! One year I went out and bought a 20 ton shop press. I assembled it and put in the corner of the garage. Figured my wife would never know about it since it blended it i with all the other "stuff". I swear it wasn't in there for more than 3 days when my wife asked "What's that big red thing" :-\
Anyway, I agree, another engine probably would not be noticed!
Ra andy B
That's because you forgot to lightly spray it with WD-40 or the equivalent and lightly shake the vacuum bag over it to give it a "patina". ::)
Ron
RRSA
Point well taken! But what I really suspect is that someone is offering a course to women on "how to spot when your husband brings in more junk" I know they offer courses (and you see it on Dope-rah) about what signs to look for when you suspect your husband is cheating on you. :-\...... so why not a course in other things?
Come on guys,
Why be whimps and try hiding things from your spouse.
Just go out and buy it. Put it in the garage, and if your wife asks about it just be honest and say yes I bought it for my hobby. What is so hard about that. If she gets upset than just work it out.
How many needless things does your spouse bring home? If it is a fair amount than there sould not be a problem. And if she is thrifty like my wife, and your wife knows you are pretty thrifty most of the time than she should understand. My wife at times says that at least I am trying to make something. She also says at least I am not blowing my money at bars like many men.
Henry
Sounds like you've got lucky Henry, and have a rational wife.
Most women, IME, are not rational. In fact, most are wired to the moon as far as I can tell... If you find/have a rational one, hold onto her for grim life, because they are few & far between...
Well to be perfectly honest. I have a good wife and she doesn't complain when I bring in more stuff. As a matter of fact I almost always tell her ahead of time that I'm going to spend "x" amount of dollars on something. She knows, for the most part that when I buy something its for the "house and family" Randy B
I'm having fun reading this post to my wife and she said "Ditto" to Henry's post.
I'll keep her ;D
It doesn't mean that she doesn't cock her head a little and ask politely "Do you NEED another one?"
If I say Er...Yes, then she lets it go at that.
my wife doesn't complain, however she makes endless fun of me for being a hoarder!
and she might have a point,
as an example
i wear a specific make of work boot, it has not been made in over 6 years now, the last pair i bought while they were in production
were over 200 bucks per set, i found and bought 3 pairs of NOS from a warehouse in michigan about 6 years ago when i could no longer get them anywhere else. ok 3 pairs is not a big deal right?
fast forward to a year ago, i find a guy on ebay that has several pairs of my boots, new old stock, my size and wants 22 bucks a pair
so i buy the two pairs he has listed,, he then contacts me to see if i want more,, i buy a case at 20 bucks each...
the other day while rearranging and cleaning out our spare room, i moved the boots because there was some signs of mold growth...
my wife nearly wet herself when she saw the pile of boots, all cleaned and neatly sitting side by side all down the base board heater in our bedroom... she counted all total 11 pairs including the 2 pairs i rotate between wearing now!
she told me she never again wanted to hear anything out of me about how many pairs of shoes she has, she says at least all her shoes don't all look alike!
she has a point i guess, i won't live long enough to wear out all these boots, but when all 11 pairs cost about the same as a single pair back when they were in production,, how do you walk away from that?
oh ya, i plan on being buried in a pair of those boots, and my wife said no problem
"i will bury you honey with ever darn pair of them"
yup, she is a keeper
:)
bob g
Ok Bob....you win ! ;D
I was going to make a comment out bringing stuff home...hiding it...hoarding multiple versions of the good items..etc..
BUT DAMN !!! your story wins ...hands down.
I am silenced !
veggie
Quote from: mobile_bob on December 04, 2010, 06:44:23 AM
"how do you walk away from that?"
With considerable difficulty, I imagine, if you haven't got any boots on!
Haven't tried this for engines yet, but it works for guns. The LAST my lovely wife asked me how many guns I needed, I responded by asking how many pairs of shoes she needed. There was a long pregnant pause and that was the last I heard of it. ;D
The Wife is pretty cool about my "junque". I suffer from ADD and as a a result I start 'way to many things and then tend not to finish them. She gets kinda torqued about that. On the other hand She has a traumatic brain injury from an encounter with a horse's hind foot,
so her memory is pretty "iffy". I suppose we tend to cancel each other out, we have lived pretty well for the last 28 years. ;D
Ron
a horse HUmmmmmmmmmm
You still got em??
Like bschwartz, my wife and I read this thread together and we're still laughing!
Quote from: slowspeed on December 04, 2010, 10:41:52 PM
a horse HUmmmmmmmmmm
You still got em??
HELL no! Horses are the Devil in disguise.
Ron