New Group and Changes

[Henry W]

Hi Loyd,

I never think of anyone as a peon on this forum. I have learned some wonderfull things from some of the simplest posts here. Lots of your posts are loaded with very good info and the complex info in some of them is very valuable to all.

Thanks again,

Henry

[sailawayrb]

If you want maximize worthwhile contributions, and minimize off-topic and worthless comments, you may want to consider doing away with giving people titles solely based on their posting level (i.e., Newbie, Hero Member, etc).  If one spent some time at the Lister Engine Forum, one might observe the correlation that a person's knowledge of the subject and worthwhile contribution was often inversely proportional to their posting level.  I am not saying the situation is that extreme here, but I do think giving people titles based on their posting level can create exactly the situation you seem to want to avoid.

[admin]

#1  we have to form a bonofide research and development group in order to ...

#2 form an alliance with a specific group, that will allow us to...

#3 benefit in a number of ways that have been cut off to us in the last couple of years


i have been led to believe that "if" we form the research and development group, we can then qualify for a partnership, that
will allow us to do certain things that we cannot currently do.

thats all i am going to say at this point, and i am not going to get out a box of crayons to illustrate what by now should be fairly
clear to everyone.

fundamentally there is nothing wrong with what we are or have been doing, this is simply the next step in an evolution of the forum
that was laid out in the vision statement.

admin

[Crofter]

#1  we have to form a bonofide research and development group in order to ...

#2 form an alliance with a specific group, that will allow us to...

#3 benefit in a number of ways that have been cut off to us in the last couple of years


i have been led to believe that "if" we form the research and development group, we can then qualify for a partnership, that
will allow us to do certain things that we cannot currently do.

thats all i am going to say at this point, and i am not going to get out a box of crayons to illustrate what by now should be fairly
clear to everyone.

fundamentally there is nothing wrong with what we are or have been doing, this is simply the next step in an evolution of the forum
that was laid out in the vision statement.

admin

That could be construed as a suggestion that the group identity should be heavily stacked with professional credentials to provide credibility to attract the partnership. I can also see that scenario being easier to then attract more of the same, since, to some extent these people are reluctant to be associated with a venue that has dog fighting going on in one of the adjacent tents. Lol! Makes sense but the euphemisms sound much nicer. That point was brought up early in the forum when allowing the political rant was being discussed.

That is the cross to bear of an administrator: someone is always looking for something nefarious in your every deed! There is a lot of technique in wrapping a package that determines how it will be seen. Hell If you gift wrap your garbage and leave it on the front porch it will just disappear!

Anyways, it sounds like some good moves afoot into a new arena.

[rcavictim]

AFAIK the forum software itself is to blame for assigning names to people based on their number of submitted posts.  It is a simple seniority system.

[AdeV]

AFAIK the forum software itself is to blame for assigning names to people based on their number of submitted posts.  It is a simple seniority system.  Kinda like "Youth is wasted on young people".  Oh to have a young strong body with the brain and experience I have now.  I'd be even more of a potential lethal hazard to myself now! 

Indeed it is... and, whilst it might be possible to modify the criteria so everyone becomes an instant "hero member", I can't see any way of turning the whole thing off altogether.

If you want maximize worthwhile contributions, and minimize off-topic and worthless comments, you may want to consider doing away with giving people titles solely based on their posting level (i.e., Newbie, Hero Member, etc).  If one spent some time at the Lister Engine Forum, one might observe the correlation that a person's knowledge of the subject and worthwhile contribution was often inversely proportional to their posting level.  I am not saying the situation is that extreme here, but I do think giving people titles based on their posting level can create exactly the situation you seem to want to avoid.

I tend to agree, but I just tune it out. I've noticed on some other forums that the most prolific authors can also be the least likable, or have a (very) inflated view of their self-worth... but I'd not say there was any specific correlation.

Unfortunately, as I say above, there doesn't appear to be any way of turning it off...

[sailawayrb]

If you want maximize worthwhile contributions, and minimize off-topic and worthless comments, you may want to consider doing away with giving people titles solely based on their posting level (i.e., Newbie, Hero Member, etc).  If one spent some time at the Lister Engine Forum, one might observe the correlation that a person's knowledge of the subject and worthwhile contribution was often inversely proportional to their posting level.  I am not saying the situation is that extreme here, but I do think giving people titles based on their posting level can create exactly the situation you seem to want to avoid.

I tend to agree, but I just tune it out. I've noticed on some other forums that the most prolific authors can also be the least likable, or have a (very) inflated view of their self-worth... but I'd not say there was any specific correlation.

Unfortunately, as I say above, there doesn't appear to be any way of turning it off...
[/quote]


Seems like all the professional forums (ASME, IEEE, AIAA, SAE) turn it OFF?  Even George's forum turned it OFF:

http://slowspeedengines.com/forum/

While George knows more about engines/generators than most and while I wouldn't classify him as an IT expert, he still managed to turn it OFF 

[bschwartz]

I tend to agree, but I just tune it out. I've noticed on some other forums that the most prolific authors can also be the least likable, or have a (very) inflated view of their self-worth...

Hey.... I have a huge ego, and am not very liked, but don't have many posts.  How'd that happen? 

[LowGear]

I have not yet been anointed into the second house.  But I have been irritated by the two house architecture.  I got interested in a "motor oil as a fuel" discussion but couldn't quote my engine's manual recommendations because there was no reply button or tab.  What the   And then the thread originator clued me in.  Exxxcussssssss me.

This is like toll bridges.  You use my tax dollar supported roads (the internet) but you want me to pay to use your bridge (web site) that you've built with non copyrighted material (steel from China).

You want a couple of bucks to help pay for stuff?  Seems completely reasonable to me.  Set up a donation area.  I'll PayPal you a couple of bucks every once in a while.  Good Faith and The Golden Rule are pretty much two way streets.

Casey

[Crumpite]

I have not yet been anointed into the second house.  But I have been irritated by the two house architecture.  I got interested in a "motor oil as a fuel" discussion but couldn't quote my engine's manual recommendations because there was no reply button or tab.  What the   And then the thread originator clued me in.  Exxxcussssssss me.

This is like toll bridges.  You use my tax dollar supported roads (the internet) but you want me to pay to use your bridge (web site) that you've built with non copyrighted material (steel from China).

You want a couple of bucks to help pay for stuff?  Seems completely reasonable to me.  Set up a donation area.  I'll PayPal you a couple of bucks every once in a while.  Good Faith and The Golden Rule are pretty much two way streets.

Casey

Casey,

Your attitude about the "two tier" system isn't unreasonable, but keep reading, please.

With SOMRAD becoming an 'official' origination, certain legality's need to be kept up, however distasteful they may be.
I do believe that membership is part of the legality.

He could have charged a dollar, but I'd guess that $15 is low enough to separate the folks who are serious about this and those who are not.
I don't think you'll find any professional society with lower yearly dues !

I'm pretty sure that the folks who are filing the paperwork and such are/have been running their butts off trying to get all of the ducks in a row. (much like herding cats, government stuff...)
A little more than a dollar a month isn't much to pay for that.

Also, as you've seen, the info we're collecting isn't private, it's out in the open for all to see.
We're not trying to be a secret society here !

I used to get a sour taste in my mouth about the legal system and all of it's BS.
I'm come to realize that it's as easy to use the system as it is to be used by it.

Bob and company are doing their best to insulate us from the paper work, and to let us try to collect some data and get regulatory relief from the EPA.
To jump through a $15 hoop doesn't bother me at all.

I have a very good friend, who's been a political activist for most of his life, look at what we're trying to do here.
You won't find a man more critical about our government, and tight with a dollar, yet he gave me the 15 bucks to join him up, just on the basis of what we're trying to do.
That's mighty high phrase from a my who's political acumen is much higher than mine.

At some point you need to trust others and learn to delegate stuff you're not good at.
I trust Bob and company to be doing the right thing here.

Crumpite

[mobile_bob]

Casey:

you present a unique situation for me, in that it illustrates how no good deed goes unpunished.

i talked about the upcoming change weeks before the change, and i toiled many late hours worrying how
to do this dual purpose forum without pissing off half or more of the membership.

funny thing is i don't remember you adding any input positive or negative before now?  maybe i am wrong?

let me restate the thinking that went into the decision

1. there was a real need for a research and development group.

2. it would have been very easy to cherry pick members from here, there and elsewhere to populate it,

3. it would have been even easier to have made it a closed forum, invitation only

4. i didn't want to take away from this forum, rather i wanted to add another dimension to it.

5. i wanted the new research and development wing to be open source for anyone to read and learn from

6. sorry but there is a need for a nominal fee, that is set to a value that is hopefully sufficient to cover the cost
of production of membership certificates, mailing those certificates, and maintaining the filings needed by the EPA
along with the ongoing contact and info swap with the EPA

7. this forum was paid for, setup by, and maintained by exactly 3 people, aside from the aid of other members that
are moderators who also need a lot of thanks. i would like to keep it that way if possible.

8. any excess funds from the SOMRAD group membership dues, go toward paying the fee's i pay to have this forum on
what you call the "free" internet, perhaps you don't know, but domain names, websites, forums all have an annual fee attached to
them.

9. no system it perfect, no human is perfect, god knows i am not even close!

10. if i recall correctly i posted in one of the "read first" topics, words to the effect that this is an evolving idea, and i am not sure
if it will work as designed, if not i will have no problems taking those that want to go and setup a closed forum to accomplish those goals
as set out for the SOMRAD group.  it really won't bother me at all to do so, the losers will be those that are then truly excluded.

Casey, i know you don't like this setup, and believe me i don't like it any more than you do, however
until something better comes along this is what we got.

i would suggest that if you don't want to join the SOMRAD group, you simply add your comments to whatever topic you like under
the "questions to the R&D group" or  follow the directions and join the group.

if the 15 bucks presents a hardship, please feel free to contact me
i am not without compassion and will make an exception where there is a real need.

and btw, should a million folks join the SOMRAD group, there will likely then be a bunch of money sitting in a rather large coffee can
should that day come, i will notify you and everyone else and we will have a real nice convention somewhere and the drinks will be on me!



bob g

[akghound]

Don't let it bother you Bob. The SOMRA idea is a good one and you are doing the right thing. I for one am excited about it and really look forward to where it will go.Thanks for the opportunity.
Ken Gardner

[mobile_bob]

thanks guys for the kind words,

the problem comes down to this basically

we have a good group, and all is good

we want to partner with the EPA, for reasons given, so

we need a research and development group,,

therein is the problem, trying to make the 3 disparate groups come together and co-exist

so far i see no mob at my door with torches and pitchforks, so maybe it will all work out in the end?

anybody for a round of "kum-ba-ya" ?

(see i don't even know how to spell that!)



bob g

[rcavictim]

Bob,

Jens is right.  It is all good!  Your hard work towards this is appreciated.

[mobile_bob]

for the record, my knickers are not in a knot

i look at this as an exercise that i might learn from,

and if i have learned anything it is...

you can't please everyone.

as long as i make an honest effort to try, then i can look myself in the mirror
and feel good about the effort.

at the end of the day that is all that really counts

bob g