My "perky\cat/volvo" DC bat charger

[mobile_bob]

let me guess?

the empress hotel in the background?  victoria bc?

bob g

[Lloyd]

well, i thought i would post an up date.

Ya'll remember my topic on battery murder, I might not of killed them, but I did kick the old lady's when they were down. So this week after nine years I had to replace my 6 Trojan T-125's, with the same.

I always say KARMA is real...so the week I ordered the the new bats, I stop by the boat to do some prep work. I open the door...and the first thing I smell is magic smoke. My sniffer leads me to the inverter cabinet, after a quick check of the bat monitor.

Yep...as my noses gets closer to the inverter the stronger the pungent smell of magic smoke. After I pop the top on the inverter I find a smoked resistor, and capacitor, along with a couple of diodes, the trace on the fet board looks ok...but it's likely the end of life for this inverter. I found another fet board used...but at 12 years old this inverter isn't fit for sea duty anymore. I think I"ll replace the fet board and make it my bench top charger for bat maintenance.

So now I have to do a final bone up on a new inverter for my own use. I installed about 10 inverters last year of just about every brand except Magnum.  As it turns out Magnum is a company which includes a number of EE's from Heart, and Trace. My old inverter was a Trace 2512SB Turbo modified sine-wave.

I like Outback, have had good experience with them, I won't even consider a Xantrex, and I have installed a number of Victron Products so far so good...the one thing I don't like about Victron is all of their equipment is built to only a 20 degree temp rise. So I started doing some research on the Magnum, turns out they are built like a tank much like the old Hearts, and the early Trace's. The magnum was almost a direct bolt in with no modification needed to the inverter cabinet, both the Outback, and the Victron would have require a major job removing and rebuilding the inverter cabinet. I was willing to do it for the Outback but not the Victron, in the end I couldn't make the Outback fit.

So I ended up with the Magnum MS2812 Pure Sine, for 2 reasons. 1 it fit no mods, and 2 it's built to a 60 degree temp rise. So with that I needed to bone up on the Mag associate parts, which included a networked version bat monitor, Inverter Remote Control, and Auto Gen Start. I decided that I didn't need the BatMon. as I already have what I think is the best in the industry. But I did do the networked auto gen start, and the Remote Inverter Control Panel.

The Magnum like the Victron has a shore power boost capability, and with the triggers from the BatMon. and Auto Start, the little DC charger can operate as a hybrid. 1. as a dc bat charger/cogen, 2. as an inverter gen, that backs up shore power in boost mode....and the Icing on the Cake is the ability to auto increase/decrease gen speed based on load demand. That final key was from Precision Governors http://www.precisiongovernors.com/products/details/index.cfm?type=actuator&product=47

So now she starts up from manual or auto, goes through warm up, then into bulk charge at 2450 rpm, and as soon as the amperage drops from high to low the gen slows 1600 rpm to match the output, then a simple load call speeds her back up until the demand drops again, or she auto shuts down. I can set the quiet time so the auto start is in hibernation, and wakes up during programmed hours of OK to run gen time.

Wee were having fun.

Lloyd

[Tom Reed]

Hi Lloyd, Bummer about the magic smoke coming out of your inverter. The magnum sounds like a nice piece of hardware. If my outback's ever die that might be the way I go. Thanks for the update.

[SteveU.]

Hey Lloyd
Thanks for this direct usage brand by brand feedback info.
I'll pass on that link you put up for the Precision Actuators.
Regards
Steve Unruh

[Lloyd]

Hi Steve and Tom,

Thanks, Tom I like outback I have installed a few dozen over the years, still to this date no callbacks. Steve, I hope I can contribute to help others in their path.

Now for some more update.

I completed the 2nd commission cycle on the new bat bank, which consisted of drawing 325 AmpHrs from the bank at about a 20 to 25 amp draw, over the course of about 24 hours. Then I switched back on the new magnum inverter to charge mode. It put a steady 125 amps into the bank for about 3 hours before the absorption stage was reached and started folding back the current.

A couple of features on the Magnum I really like, the remote gives you the temp of the bats never exceeded 68 F, and it also gives you the temp of the transformer which was at 120 -130 F during the bulk charge cycle, as well as the temp of the fet's, which were stable at about 115 F. after 3 more hrs the bats reach 100% and the Magnum kicked into float charge. Now one thing that I really like is this unit if PF corrected, which is why it was able to put out it's rated 125 amps for the 3 hours. My dock power is a little wanky, and the the old Trace that was not PF corrected could only muster about 80 amps out of it's 120 amp rating.

Now that the bats were in float I proceeded with my next round of testing. I started up the perky/cat with the Balmar 614 controller, let the engine come up to temp. Then I turned on a 750 watt load, for 10 mins. then added another 2k watts for a total of 2750 watts running off the inverter, then I added  20 amps of DC loads to the bats....Now the the Perky/Cat is producing a stabilized amp output of right at 250 amps. A check of the BatMon. shows plus 5 amps which at 14/7 V which is what the float voltage/amperes were when I disconnected shore power. Now for the real test the referer and the frige 2 separate units start cycling on and off. I run this load for 1 hour straight. Now that's an inverter/generator.

I am really impressed with the Balmar 614 controller, each time the refer or the frig cycled on I watched the BatMon, and the no loads coming from the bats, the Balmar was able to ramp up and down to maintain each cycle which was on average about 10 minutes each, sometimes together, sometimes 1, then both.

After the 1 hr run the temps were as follows Bats 58F, fet's 112 F, transformer 132 F, the bridge rectifier on the Leese Neville 82 C, and the Perky temp is stable at 190 F.

Now that boys is an inverter generator operating at peek efficiency across the board. I am so pleased that my plan came together.

Next test up are the shore side boost, and the gen auto start.

wooohhhhooooo

Lloyd

[Tom Reed]

How is the dual speed gen control in the Magnum going to interfaced with the generator/Balmer controller?

[Lloyd]

How is the dual speed gen control in the Magnum going to interfaced with the generator/Balmer controller?

Hi Tom,

The gen/balmar are energized from the start circuit, the same circuit is used by the magnum for auto start, and the controller is interfaced with a voltage ,and ampere switching relays.

This is a link to the governor controller, the governor is a direct replacement for the normal energize to run solenoid, and it then takes over that job as well as speed control, and over-speed/under-speed shutdown.

http://www.precisiongovernors.com/download/index.cfm?id=165

The following contains all the features and data that are available in this package.  PG will customize this controller and its software to fit the needs of your application.
Features
High impact plastic case
12/24 volt DC power
Configurable PID actuator control loop
RS-232 serial interface
Speed input (mag pickup, ignition, transformer)
Overspeed and underspeed control
Auto-Start capability
Starter lockout capabilities
Warm up speed and time
Up to 7 reconfigurable pots for adjustments
8 DIP switches for optional settings
4 discrete inputs 
4 discrete outputs
2 analog inputs
Multiple frequency inputs for speed monitoring
Over current and short circuit protected
5 volt and ground rails for analog power (2x)
LED fault/status indicator
Optional EMI protection
2 Optional CAN interfaces 
Customizable J-1939 protocol for CAN interface

[Tom Reed]

Ok, so if I understand properly, the Balmer will electrically control the charge rate and process and the Magnum will reduce the speed of the generator when the voltage reaches a predetermined set point.

I guess what's got me confused is the typical input to the inverter would be 120/240vac. In that scenario the frequency would go low with the rpm's and possibly mess with some AVR's too. Is the multi-speed feature for DC only? Does the inverter take a DC charging input? If so what is the voltage range?

[Lloyd]

Ok, so if I understand properly, the Balmer will electrically control the charge rate and process and the Magnum will reduce the speed of the generator when the voltage reaches a predetermined set point.

I guess what's got me confused is the typical input to the inverter would be 120/240vac. In that scenario the frequency would go low with the rpm's and possibly mess with some AVR's too. Is the multi-speed feature for DC only? Does the inverter take a DC charging input? If so what is the voltage range?

Hi Tom,

Yes the Balmar controls the charge rate from the Leese Neville alternator. No the magnum doesn't control the speed that is by the Pcisiongovernors.com controller and governor. An inverter normally take AC in and converts it to DC for charging, and passes shore 120V through to the other AC loads. When away from shore it takes DC from the bats and inverts it to AC for the 120V loads.

Now in my case the Perky/cat acts as a DC bat charger at 270 amps DC which is over double what the inverter charger can do. But as a hybrid it can also power the inverter from the DC side or charge the bats as well as power the inverter. Then when connected to shore side power the Inverter in assist mode can boost the normal 30 amp AC by an additional 2800 watts, either from the bats or from the DC gen. If the loads are short term then the bats provide, but if the loads are longer such as a cook top, heater or air con. the gen auto starts.

The magnum controller provides the call for the gen start, as well as the start stop sequence, and the governor provides the speed control w/ signals either from the BatMon. and or the Magnum controller.

Lloyd

[hal]

Lloyd, it's sad to see the damage to your wallet.   But it brings you up to date with some new hardware.   

The Precision Governor looks good.   The ultimate fuel saver if it can throttle down the engine to meet the required inverter load request.   Is Precision software keying off the Balmar amperage output?  I'm just trying to see how it will work with my 2 alternators and Balmar.

[Lloyd]

Hey Hal,

I am using the BatMonhttp://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=709.msg12507#msg12507 for the trigger device and the Magnum AutoGenStart for the start stop controls, and the Precision Gov, for the speed control. The Balmar is just controlling the Alternator.

What's the status for your project, are you ready to move ahead or have you already done that?

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

Well I am back from my annual 30 days at SEA.

We did about 750 nautical miles this year, sat on the hook for for 2 days at a time. Ran the perky 20 hrs total time, and burned 17 liters of diesel.

All was good.

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

Hi all,

I have finally resolved, and have a state of the art Variable Speed Control for my dc gen. It interfaces with the auto-start, or allows manual start.

This is how the system works start the gen and the controller holds it at 1000 rpm for 60 seconds to allow oil up. Then it slope up the rpm to 1600 and sends a signal to the Balmar regulator to turn on, as well as to a time delay relay, the puts the Balmar controller in small engine mode. Then it ramps up speed to 2000 rpm and holds for 45 seconds, the Balmar starts ramp up of the field to the alternator set to 60 seconds this allows the engine speed to stay ahead of the alternator out put. At the end of the 45 seconds the governor begins to ramp up to full speed  of 2800 rpm or at a speed to be determined by the controller between 2000 rpm and 2800 rpm depending on the current out put of the alternator.

I found this nifty little Hall Effects Current sensor. It measures current between 0 amps and 300 amps, and outputs 0 to 5 volts as a percentage of current.



Then this Governor controller receives that signal. makes a decision based on the programed data.



Then sends a command to the SV Actuator which screws in as a direct replacement for the stock energize to run solenoid, no linkage required.



The speed is measured by a tooth counting flywheel sensor.

So now when the engine is running, the speed will follow the alternator current out put up and down between 2000 and 2800 rpm. If a large load is applied to the bat bank by the inverter then a separate Hall effects sensors will alert the controller to again ramp up speed.

I work with the engineer at PG to tweak the software based on needs. It also has 3 adjustable pots on-board to fine tune, as well as an RS 232 port to tweak the software after installation.

I worked out a spreadsheet to determine the initial set up.



I should have all the parts by early January for install, and fine tuning.

Lloyd

[BruceM]

Looking good, Llyod.  The PeCOS model dc looks like a good solution.  I checked out the specs, but notice they don't list a price.  It could be useful for others who don't want to do a custom controller.  Do you mind telling us what the 1 unit price is?

[Lloyd]

Looking good, Llyod.  The PeCOS model dc looks like a good solution.  I checked out the specs, but notice they don't list a price.  It could be useful for others who don't want to do a custom controller.  Do you mind telling us what the 1 unit price is?

Hi Bruce,

The peCOS was just shy of 150, same for the SV, and the current sensor was 50. For me it was a no brainier, I charge 85 an hr in my business, so that gives less then 2 hrs to learn how to program, bring wires out, add pots, then pot the whole mess so its water resistant.

I say one thing I was really impressed with the people at PG, they spent 5 phone calls with me writing the program all before I bought the parts. It was a pleasure to do business with them.

You should also look at InPower's web site http://www.inpowerdirect.com/productfamilies.php they have some very good options for DC automation. They are also a pleasure to do business with.

I love it when a company gives you access to their EE's as both of these companies did for me.

Lloyd