My "perky\cat/volvo" DC bat charger

[mobile_bob]

Lloyd:

how is your project coming along, did you ever get the transformer/rectifier?

bob g

[Lloyd]

Hi Bob,

My project has had a bit of a backseat to the job of getting MV Dearleap off to Alaska.

She's gone, I installed 3 inverters, tied to 3 bat banks(1-2100 amphr 12volt, 1-1400 amp 12volt, and 1-1000 ampr 12 volt) This entailed all new cables for all 3 banks,  plus a new ships ground circuit. Also installed three bat amphr managers, plus a new Sat TV system.

Now on to my status...I have a quote from one of the toroidal rec suppliers, waiting on the second.

Also have the  quote on the Vicor switching rectifier/charger, while this may be a system that is much more efficient then the toroids...it is twice the money...so I have to run some numbers on amortization. The Vicor unit will increase the overall efficiency and let the alternator run much cooler...which also helps...I have to justify the additional costs.

We are also  considering a redesign of the Vicor unit, the original design was a regulated switching power supply ported to a Vicor Batmode that controlled the charge cycle with the alternator running at a fixed field voltage(no Balmar Controller).

I spoke with the design engineer and suggested that we look at a 3 phase unregulated switching power supply/rectifier, then use the Balmar Controller as it's designed to control the alternator output and control the charge cycle...the new design would follow the input voltage of the alternator, as controlled by the Balmar.

He thinks this is possible, and that it would lessen the overall costs, while still maintaining the efficiencies of the original design.

That's my up date.

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

here is the 2010 leece neville alternator buyers guide

http://www.prestolite.com/literature/stm/PP-1184-US_Quick_Reference_Guide-lo-res.pdf

[Lloyd]

Well group, I finally got all of the bids on my project, and ordered the Trans/Rec today, also am about 50% complete on the motor/alt frame as of today, it should be finished up by next week.

I pursued a couple of options.

Option one being a three phase toroidal buck isolation transformer rectifier. I got three bids priced as follows: "Company A".... full black box system $14,616 dollars for the prototype,   "Company B"....full black box system $2,275.00 dollars for the prototype, and "Company C"....3 phase toroidal rectifier transformer only, I have to then build the black box and add the rectifier, and associated breakers/fans/safety features.

Option 2, was a regulated switching power supply/rectifier with a batmod charge controller for the bats, $3,943.00 dollars for the prototype.
This option has now morphed into an unregulated switching power supply/rectifier...dropping the batmod, and going back to the Balmar as the charge controler. Price is expected to be lees then the regulated version...but don't have the answers yet.

I ordered Option one, from "Company B" today, it will be here in about 4 weeks.

attached are the quotes that have the company names blacked out...if any one wants the names PM me.

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

teaching text on Power Factor

http://www.electrical-installation.org/w/images/7/73/EIG_chap_L-2010_haute_def.pdf

[Lloyd]

This is a Static Frequency Converter, 400Hz to 60Hz, Unitron Inc., Model PS-65-225-8, NSN 5865-01-148-6427. Power input 115/200 volt, 400cps, 3 Phase. Output 115 vrms, 1 phase, 60cps, 400va. The unit is in good physical condition, Untested, USED Surplus.

[Lloyd]

Well I have spent a lot of wasted time designing a state of charge controller to to auto/start/stop my Perky\cat/Volvo. Everything from researching current sensing to voltage sensing, to determine when the auto start gen panel receives a signal to do it's job.

Well I have already installed the perfect controller on Flying Cloud...back in 2003...I just forgot all it's capabilities, as a matter of fact I often install these units on client yachts...about 100% of my jobs. I depend on this little unit to manage the state of charge already....it's just manual as opposed to automatic. I have become so accustom to installing these units I never read the manual anymore... Well this thing has capabilities that I dreamed of...just need to reacquaint myself with the same.

Lloyd

http://www.tbs-electronics.com/products_expertpro_large.htm



http://www.tbs-electronics.com/downloads/E-pro_TBS_Manual_Rev2e.pdf

2.0 Low battery alarm On (% SOC). When the percentage has fallen
below this value, the alarm relay will be activated (depending on F2.6).
State-of-charge

F2 : LOW BATTERY ALARM SETTINGS
Default : 50% Range : 0 - 99% Step size : 1%

F2.1 Low battery alarm On (Volts). When the has fallen below this
value, the alarm relay will be activated (depending on F2.6).
battery voltage
Default : 10.5V Range : 8.0 - 33.0V Step size : 0.1V

F2.2 Low battery alarm Off (% SOC). When the State-of-charge percentage has risen
above this value and the alarm relay was activated, the alarm relay will deactivate
again. When "FULL" is selected, the alarm relay is deactivated when the Autosync
parameters are met.
Default : 80% Range : 1 - 100% / FULL Step size : 1%

F2.3 Low battery alarm On delay time. This is the time the Low battery alarm On
conditions, F2.0 and F2.1, must be met before the alarm is activated.
Default : 10sec Range : 0 - 300sec Step size : variable

F2.4 Minimum 'Alarm On' time. Minimum time that the alarm relay stays activated even
if the State-of-charge percentage has risen above the Low battery alarm Off
setpoint (F2.2). Function units are hours:minutes.
Default : 0:00 Range : 0:00 - 12:00 Step size : variable
F2.5 Maximum 'Alarm On' time. Maximum time that the alarm stays activated even if
the the State-of-charge percentage is still below the Low battery alarm Off setpoint
(F2.2). The value "-:--" indicates an unlimited time, and the relay will stay activated
until the State-of-charge percentage has risen above the Low battery alarm Off
setpoint (F2.2). Function units are hours:minutes
Default : -:- - Range : 0:00 - 12:00 / -:- - Step size : variable

F2.6 Enable Low battery alarm / Use contact. Select "OFF" to disable the low battery
alarm. Select "[1]" to use the battery monitor's internal alarm relay. Select "[ ]1" to
"[ ]8" to use an external alarm contact (only for use with optional Alarm output
expander).
Default : [1] Range : OFF / [1] / [ ]1..[ ]8

F3.0 Main battery low voltage alarm On. When the Main battery voltage falls below this
value, the message "Lo" will appear on the display and the selected alarm relay
will be activated (depending on F3.2).

F3 : LOW VOLTAGE ALARM SETTINGS
Default : 10.5V Range : 8.0 - 33.0V Step size : 0.1V

F3.1 Main battery low voltage alarm Delay. This is the time the Main battery low voltage
alarm On condition, F3.0, must be met before the alarm is activated.
Default : 10sec Range : 0 - 300sec Step size : variable

F3.2 Enable Main battery low voltage alarm / Use contact. Select "OFF" to disable the
Main battery low voltage alarm. Select "[1]" to use the battery monitor's internal
alarm relay. Select "[ ]1" to "[ ]8" to use an external alarm contact (only for use with
optional Alarm output expander).
Default : OFF Range : OFF / [1] / [ ]1..[ ]8

F3.3 Auxiliary battery low voltage alarm On. When the Auxiliary battery voltage falls
below this value, the message "Lo" will appear on the display and the selected
alarm relay will be activated (depending on F3.5).
Default : 10.5V Range : 8.0 - 33.0V Step size : 0.1V

F3.4 Auxiliary battery low voltage alarm Delay. This is the time the Auxiliary battery low
voltage alarm On condition, F3.3, must be met before the alarm is activated.
Default : 10sec Range : 0 - 300sec Step size : variable
F3.5 Enable Auxiliary battery low voltage alarm / Use contact. Select "OFF" to disable
the Auxiliary battery low voltage alarm. Select "[1]" to use the battery monitor's
internal alarm relay. Select "[ ]1" to "[ ]8" to use an external alarm contact (only for
use with optional Alarm output expander).
Default : OFF Range : OFF / [1] / [ ]1..[ ]8

F4.0 Main battery high voltage alarm On. When the Main battery voltage rises above
this value, the message "Hi" will appear on the display and the selected alarm
relay will be activated (depending on F4.2).

F4 : HIGH VOLTAGE ALARM SETTINGS
Default : 16.0V Range : 10.0 - 35.0V Step size : 0.1V

F4.1 Main battery high voltage alarm Delay. This is the time the Main battery high
voltage alarm On condition, F4.0, must be met before the alarm is activated.
Default : 5sec Range : 0 - 300sec Step size : variable

F4.2 Enable Main battery high voltage alarm / Use contact. Select "OFF" to disable the
Main battery high voltage alarm. Select "[1]" to use the battery monitor's internal
alarm relay. Select "[ ]1" to "[ ]8" to use an external alarm contact (only for use with
optional Alarm output expander).
Default : OFF Range : OFF / [1] / [ ]1..[ ]8

F5.0 Battery capacity. Your Main battery's capacity in Amphours (Ah).

F5 : 'MAIN' BATTERY PROPERTIES
Default : 200Ah Range : 20 - 9990Ah Step size : variable

F5.1 Nominal discharge rate (C-rating). The discharge rate (in hours) at which the
battery manufacturer rates your battery's capacity.
Default : 20h Range : 1 - 20h Step size : 1h

F5.2 Nominal temperature. The temperature at which the battery manufacturer rates
your battery's capacity.
Default : 20°C Range : 0 - 40°C Step size : 1°C

F5.3 Temperature coefficient. This is the percentage that your battery's capacity
changes with temperature. The unit of this value is percent capacity per degree
Celsius. The setting "OFF" disables temperature compensation.
Default :
0.50%cap/°C
Range :
OFF / 0.01 - 1.00
Step size : 0.01%cap/°C

F5.4 Peukert's exponent. The Peukert's exponent represents the effect of reducing
battery capacity at higher discharge rates. When the Peukert value of your battery
is unknown, it is recommended to keep this value at 1.25. A value of 1.00 disables
the Peukert compensation.
Default : 1.25 Range : 1.00 - 1.50 Step size : 0.01
F5.5 Self-discharge rate. This is the rate at which the battery loses capacity by itself,
even when it is not used. The unit of this value is percent capacity per month at
the Nominal temperature (F5.2). The setting "OFF" disables self-discharge
compensation.
Default : 3.0%/month Range : OFF / 0.1 -
25.0%/month
Step size : 0.1%/month

F5.6 Charge Efficiency Factor (CEF). CEF is the ratio between the energy removed
from a battery during discharge and the energy used during charging to restore
the original capacity. It is recommended to keep keep this value at "AU" (automatic
calculation). The setting "100" disables charge efficiency compensation.
Default : AU Range : 50 - 100% / AU Step size : 1%

If that's not enough

A data logger add-on http://www.tbs-electronics.com/products_expertpro_rs232.htm


An alarm expander kit
http://www.tbs-electronics.com/products_expertpro_alarmoutputexpanderkit.htm

[Lloyd]

Well I have the frame work and alternator mounting in process. These are some really bad cell phone pics.

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

hehe

[Westcliffe01]

Lloyd, did you consider the water cooled ISKRA alternators ?  I also assume from your package that you are height restricted ?

[Lloyd]

West....ffe,

I didn't even know that Alternator existed... It sure is an interesting concept for a CHP unit.

I wonder if it would be hard to get them to do a custom wind..I'm pretty sure it will double the cost of what I paid for my custom wind...but it may be worth it...at least making an inquiry.

My unit will also be water cooled...but by a different method. I am using a cooper-nickel finned tube w/forced air, ducted to the alternator. Basically a turbo cooler...I tap the seawater inlet...then to the mani cooler then overboard, using the gear driven seawater pump. For a CHP unit it would sure be nice to be able capture the heat from the Alt.

I am convinced based on my research that most of the loss in a lundell style is a result of stator resistance...specifically heat in the copper of the stator.

It's funny I was just getting ready to email MobileBob, regarding an epiphany I had...I have even done some photoshop illustration to the above pics of the dissected claw pole...I was going to propose, milling the claws and inserting PM's potted in high-temp epoxy, from the under side of the claw, as a way to increase excitation with out cost of eff....y, and also cause output at a much lower RPM...I see that ISKRA did exactly that...which I think is brilliant...to bad I didn't think of it first.

As far as height restricted...on a vessel...every cubic inch is valuable...so I intend to minimize at every corner...that won't effect overall performance.

Thanks for the link.

Lloyd

[Westcliffe01]

The big alternator (AAP) has 2 rotors connected in parallel with independent rectifiers (P5 in the Pdf), so it may not be such a stretch to connect them in series to get 28v nominal and tweak up to 30V, which it appears is what you want as the final output for your application.  Not sure if the current capacity would fit your needs if one halved the roughly 300amp output.

You will have lower parasitic loss by losing the cooling fan and the other key benefit is the quieter operation.  May have slightly lower resistive losses due to lower winding temperatures.

[Lloyd]

Westcliffe01,

My actual target voltage on this unit is 14.5 to 15 volts temp dependant as a charge source into 750-1400 amp hr 12 volt nominal bat banks.

My biggest hurdle when I started was  in my installation as well as about half the boats that I work on. It's not uncommon for the bat bank to be 30-40 feet from the the charge source...so when you figger voltage loss round trip at 60-80 feet with a charge source of 250 amp plus...that means installing 2 pair 4/0 bat cable..at a price of $8-15.00 bucks a foot dependent on where you get it. So at 40 feet  x 4 = 160 feet @ $15.00 per foot = $2400.00 in bat cable plus another $120.00 in lugs and heat shrink, with labor on top of that.

Plus I don't like to run parallel cables on such a high amp load...if one of the cables develops a high resistance in one of the lugs...the whole of the amperage could easily over amp the remaining cable...and turn it into a resistance heater 40 feet long...and on an old wood boat that would be a disaster.

My alternator is spinning at 230 volt 3-phase...so my cable size is reduced to #8, but bc the lundell is 400-600 hz, and the cable has to be up sized to #6(skin effects)...My cost for that cable is just under $500.00, so I can break even spending another 2k on a trans/rec or SMR, increase the overall system efficiency and output from the same form factor, and the same dollars.

And I can do it for less then buying a prime power AC gen...charge the bats in about 1/4 of the time, and use about 1/4 of the fuel, at 4 time less total weight. Plus with an AC prime i would still have to buy a marine shore charge and at those amp loads they run $2500.-4000.00 dollars, not to mention that the premium on the AC Prime over my DC GEN of about $4000.00, so that leave me enough room to add a frequency converter 400-600hz to 60hz, so that I can then have a nice little AC source above and beyond the inverter.

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690026159_1969026159.pdf
ABSTRACT
The measured performance of a 14.3-kVA modified Lundell or Rice alternator is
presented. Test results include alternator saturation curves, losses and efficiency,
voltage unbalance, harmonic analysis, machine reactances, and time constants. The
peak electromagnetic efficiency of the alternator was 93.6 percent for a unity power
factor load of 9.5 kW.
Alternator electromagnetic efficiency was 90.3 percent.
For an output of 14.3 kVA at 0.75 power factor lagging,.

[squarebob]

Lloyd, is there any concern with side loading of the crank???

Bob