Here is a nice engine I would like to get.

[vdubnut62]

I really don't know what to tell you, The datsun I described was a factory installation, and you didn't have to try very hard to trash a tranny.
I once owned a 1985 VW Jetta 1.5 naturally aspirated diesel rated at 48 hp with a 5 speed. At highway speeds with 2 adults and 2 children it was underpowered.
I would turn off the AC on hills to minimize speed loss. It wasn't too bad unloaded with just one adult, although still a little anemic.
I looked hard for a turbo engine for that thing, never did find one.
I have no idea how the torque/ HP curves compare on the two engines though.
The Deutz may well have more torque than the VW, probably does.
The VW was one of those converted gas engines and I think, redlined at 5000 or 5500 rpm IIRC.
Ask RCAvictim, he's running a vw powered genset.
Ron

[Wizard]

52HP 1.5L diesel VW with *pathetic* torque I'm embrassed to say: 66 ft-lb @ 2800 RPM way too high where I'd need lower RPM, redlined 4400 RPM or so  There was turbo 1.6L that made 69HP with better torque but too weak, if I had money I'd gotten it years ago but body is rotten so it got skipped.  My bio-dad had VW 1.5L diesel rabbit since when new, does ok but not fast.

1.5L diesel was offered prior to 1980.  After that larger diesel.

Rcavictim's homebuilt genset is 1.5L IIRC and Rcavictim only needed enough kW at 1800 RPM.

Cheers, Wizard

[Crofter]

The puny torque values of diesels especially the low rpm ones is deceiving. 60ft pounds torque nominal is its averaged output over 720 deg. Considering the power is delivered mostly during 90 degrees, (peek even less), the actual momentary torque values will be about 8 times higher than nominal. Pressure peaks are perhaps more spikey too than spark ignition gas. T flywheel effect goes up on the cube of rpm but only on the square of its mass so is less effective at absorbing power train torsional pulses at the lower rpm of the diesel, so larger. Diesel clutch discs have much larger pulsation dampers.

Have only had one experience with the pre turbo VW and did not feel it was very pleasant to drive. Now my VW TDI with 90 HP and 155 ft# torque at 2000 rpm is everything I need.

The flatter torque curve of a lot of diesel engines will make up for a bit less horsepower, but not much. Horsepower is after all, by definition, a measure of an engines ability to do work.

[rcavictim]

52HP 1.5L diesel VW with *pathetic* torque I'm embrassed to say: 66 ft-lb @ 2800 RPM way too high where I'd need lower RPM, redlined 4400 RPM or so  There was turbo 1.6L that made 69HP with better torque but too weak, if I had money I'd gotten it years ago but body is rotten so it got skipped.  My bio-dad had VW 1.5L diesel rabbit since when new, does ok but not fast.

1.5L diesel was offered prior to 1980.  After that larger diesel.

Rcavictim's homebuilt genset is 1.5L IIRC and Rcavictim only needed enough kW at 1800 RPM.

Cheers, Wizard

Yes, my VW plant uses a small 1.5L NA from a 1980 Rabbit.  Direct drive at 1800RPM can make 9 kW of electricity with a 3-phase STC style gen head.  I have a 1992 Jetta that has the larger 1.6 Turbo diesel and drove the car for a month a few summers ago until the clutch went out on it. The 1.6 TD is a heavier duty engine and even has oil jets squirting cooling oil up on the underside of each piston. It had plenty of power on the hills thanx to the turbo.  There is useable turbo boost at 1800 RPM so I know I could use it in a power plant direct drive.  Max torque occurs about 2500 RPM.  If one belted a gen head to run this engine at 2500 RPM one could likely make 20+ kW out of the generator.  I don't like the idea of running a stationary engine long hours at such a high speed however.

I have a spare 1.6TD engine now that needs a rebuild. There is a chance I could end up with a 1.6TD VW generator down the road swapping out the 1.5 when it is done.

[PROFG]

Hi
Just FIO, the V6 3.3 Mitsu in Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth vans is timing chain not belt, at least in 90's.  They won't honor lifetime warranty on ABS, don't ask, but that is another story.
Dick

[Wizard]

Note:

Chrysler used Mitsubishi 3.0L with timing belt.  Chrysler wanted more reliable and bit more powerful V6 and was not ready in 1987 hence the mitsubishi 3.0L to fill in for awhile while engineers worked on the 3.3L that came out in 1990 (yes there are 1990 Gen 1 3.3L caravans).  The 3.3L is totally chrysler design and pushrod engine & camshaft chain drive.

Unfortunate on your ABS brake,  that was early bendix 10 system that was giving you troubles.  It was a option, and can convert this to non-ABS with parts from another caravan.  These parts (engine, mounts and other parts) interchange on gen 1 (1984-1990) and gen 2 (1991-1995), just body differences.

Cheers, Wizard

[TimSR2]

3.3 is a Chrysler.

3.0 is the Mitsubishi  V6 offered in the 1/ 2 /3 generation caravans. The 3.3 and 3.8 are Chrysler built.   Check Allpar.com for info. Post 92 3.0 Mitsu's are bulletproof and have a very flat torque curve. Lots of power for a 3400 pound car. Engine is still in production and mainstay of the Kia and Hyundai lines to this day.  I've never had a 3.3 but I have worked on them; they're really jammed in there. 3.0 is much easier to work on. I just went up to Whistler for the Olympics, 2 adults 2 big kids and luggage, got 550 km on 58 liters fill up.... That is about 28 mpg imperial. My PT Cruiser only  gets 30 mpg imperial with a stickshift!

We were doing 70 mph much of the time, no overdrive!  three speed automatic. Forget what you heard about Mopar FWD transaxles....the 3 speeds are tough as nails and cheap to rebuild.

As far as the early ABS brake systems go-- Wizard is right, just convert the car to non ABS. No big deal.

Chrysler has pretty good engineers. Any attempt to reinvent this wheel  (put an industrial diesel in it) will  be a  waste of time and money
You will run into space and weight limitations pretty fast, and almost certainly have very disappointing results. Instead of an underpowered old Caravan/Voyager, you will have a stinky rattly old underpowered Caravan/Voyager that sits 3 inches low in the front end, and has cost you a fortune.

I  built many V8 Vega's back in the day. There's always a trade off when you are reinventing the wheel!

Regards,

Tim

[Wizard]

Gen 2 and 3 was terrible on engine access with V6.  Not just 3.3, it happened to 3.0 also.  Gen 4 had improved access by taking out the wiper grille tray.

This is why I'm exploring and researching on putting in a inline 4 diesel even inline 5 or 6 if the length is shorter (like 2.0, 2.4L size).  Few did put in V8 in one or two caravans, and that's extreme for me.  This also give me chance to totally refresh the whole system (electrical stuff and other items that is annoying to me, tidy up the electrical stuff etc.  There are many other vehicles but not all have good drivers' vision around it and I really like my caravan.

I've been trying to get my handle on ratty old computer ingition and carb.  Still not 100% because I'm stuck with old computer in carbed 2.2L caravan till I get mechanical distributor modified and need to get this rolling by contact my friend to do so. etc  Now, all this fussing made me more looking at diesel as this are mechanical and I'm very at home with that, set it up and done with it and do routine maintenance.  As my van situation currently stands right now, I have so many things to tinker to keep it good.

I had to pitch old carb for weber to get MPG up and I do like weber much so but still.
I had to re tighten carb mount bolts 2 times.  Installed regulator (weber carb needs lower PSI and adjust the return line orifice so I have less flutter in the pressure gauge and still relieve pressure when turned off.
Took long time to settle into good set up with a carb even I have good tach (timing gun has 4 digit rpm readout), wideband O2 sensor.  Made difficult with the old ignition computer till I have mechanical distributor modified to fit 2.2L engine.
Engine is weeping oil from valve cover due to rough surface (shoddy re-manufactured head)  and rubber elbows for PCV system is oozing oil.
78A alternator is barely there and won't fit 90A alternator (I have it on hand) due to crash guard bracket that surrounds the mechanical pump on the block.  Going to do this come summer when I have time to shave the bracket to have room for 90A alt.

Cheers, Wizard

[TimSR2]

Carburetor? WTF is that?

Tim

[Wizard]

Yes, Early half of 1987 was the last year for carb 2.2L and carb mitsubishi 2.6L in caravans.  Later half of 1987 went over to TBI 2.5L and mitsubishi 3.0 V6.

Lot of people are surprised/disbelief when I tell them mine is. 

Cheers, Wizard

[TimSR2]

 I know what a carburetor is, I was teasing you. I just wonder why anybody would want one! (I used to fix them for a living) Last time I tried to buy parts for a carb on a 2.6 Mitsubishi silent shaft engine I almost had a heart attack at the prices they want for them. 150 dollars for a choke pulldown dashpot, 600 dollars for a rebuilt carb. 15 years ago.  All those late 80's smog carbs are unserviceable junk now.

Multipoint Sequential Fuel Injection is what you really want.... simple, reliable.  Get with the 90's Wizard!

[Wizard]

Win a lottery, 10 years old vehicles around here is more than I can afford to buy (2,000-5,000), TimSR2.  Caravan I got was 700 in 2003 with 97470KM on the clock, in remarkable good shape compared to their similar age, many were so rusty.  Is paid for and put in repairs as funds allows, and did much of my work as well.  I can save up some funds and do the conversion using my contacts to help if succeeded to find diesel engine very cheaply.

Megasquirt version 3 is DIY spark & injection open source computer is not cheap as it appears as this needs more than 500-800 to convert.  Also don't have MPFI intake (this is found on 2.2/2.5 Turbo vehicles and they are extremely rare in junkyards, just TBI intake, an old stone age band-aid to already good carb stuff I have right now.  The megasquirt computer itself as kit or assembled is about 320 to 400.  That not includes sensors and making brackets, install fuel pump they cost pretty penny (100 to 150).

Oh yeah, pitched that holley carb few years ago, I wondered why holley shouldn't dare to touch in first place that was shoddy license copy of weber.  I put in Weber carb and that helped big time but that throws off the computer some, hence much tinkering.  Best cure and I hope to do is finish the modification to VW hall effect distributor with mechanical advance (mech & vac) and install it with VW ignition module.  This is is just a power module to trigger the coil.

Cheers, Wizard

[TimSR2]

Ok, Ok wiz....cheap and reliable is good. My latest 92 Voyager was 1300 dollars with 96 k on the clock. Up to 140 km now, just over a year later. Keep your eyes open, there are deals out there. Average un-mechanical people think any car over 5 years or 100 kkm is worn out and unreliable.

I find the only real trouble in these old 'survivor' cars is in the rubber bits.....Tires, seals, axle boots, motor mounts, belts and hoses, brake flex lines. Inspect and or change all the rubber bits out before you put an old car in service and just drive it. No payments, no worries. 

[rbodell]

Ok, Ok wiz....cheap and reliable is good. My latest 92 Voyager was 1300 dollars with 96 k on the clock. Up to 140 km now, just over a year later. Keep your eyes open, there are deals out there. Average un-mechanical people think any car over 5 years or 100 kkm is worn out and unreliable.

My 82 Ford F100 Pickup uses 1 quart of oil between oil changes.

[Wizard]

I got there already done the rubber components years ago, they cost very little overall. TimSR2.

Remarkable thing is 2.2L is for some reason is not using oil at all!  Castrol 0W30.  Except for the oily film around the valve cover, which is common on 2.2L/2.5L, I had it sealed well on old head using revised valve cover design (original head still has original smooth machining mark) but the rebuilt head was shoddy rebuilt and used media blast on everything except journals, deck so the weep is back.  Not out and out drip and not even oil spotting the parking lot.  I now have it around 116xxxKM.

Deals can be had but it is seemingly rare around here, newspaper listings no longer have these anymore which what how I found mine in 2003.  Only thing that can be had is by spread of word or dilgent checks on kijiji and craigslists'.  But Kijiji is sorta not good (once was enough) and craigslist is starting to crowd out the deals.

I also noticed that diesel Kubota engines (inline 4) is available in reasonable HP and weight within range.  I need to find more specs on VW diesel engines 2.0L 4 cyl and 2.4L 5 cyl engines, their bore size is 3.01" vs my 2.2L 3.44" bore to keep length withing reasonable length and they are also rated just under 4,000 RPM redline (perfect).

What I like aobut is repair the bodywork and put diesel in.  Deutz turned out to be too limited on types and bit low on RPM, overbuilt than necessary, also possible hard to find.

Cheers, Wizard