small, simple IDI diesel engine

[Jens]

Is there such a thing as a small, slow speed, IDI diesel engine that would be suitable for generating 24/7 power, about 1500W, would work on veggy oil and is easy to maintain for de-coking and fuel injector pump service ?

A 6/1 would probably suffer from under-loading even if the rpm's are reduced.

[rcavictim]

Is there such a thing as a small, slow speed, IDI diesel engine that would be suitable for generating 24/7 power, about 1500W, would work on veggy oil and is easy to maintain for de-coking and fuel injector pump service ?

A 6/1 would probably suffer from under-loading even if the rpm's are reduced.

Yes, a Changfa 175.  Run it at ~1400-1500 RPM.

[veggie]

Jens, I'm assuming you want slow speed for noise control.
The 6/1 may still be the best engine for this application IMHO.
If we use the 2:1 rule for HP, you need about 3HP for your 1500 watts.
A 6/1 running at 500 rpm makes 4HP.
I don't think the the engine would suffer from under loading.
Many CS engines ran for decades at 75% load in bulge pumps, lineshaft drives, and coal mine dewatering applications.

You could always add some dummy loads if/when necessary.
Add to this evaluation your familiarity with the engines and the low cost of spares.!

veggie

PS: My slow speed Changfa project showed that an S195 at 900 rpm can push 2kw all day long at an acceptable sound level.
      If you are running your twin at 900 - 1000 rpm, I suspect it's making more noise than the Changfa.

[Henry W]

The Cat Perkins is an IDI Engine

Henry

[veggie]

Jens, I'm assuming you want slow speed for noise control.

A little while ago there was a youtube clip mentioned on here. It was a 6/1 running at, IIRC below 500 rpm and the general consensus was that this can't be good for the engine.
The little CAT/Perkins engine was a nice size but being direct injected and high speed I am not sure how well they would last.

Jens

The post you are referring to is one of a 6/1 running at ~250 rpm. That's a bit extreme.

500 rpm for a 6/1 is quite acceptable. The Lister power curve gives ratings from 500 to 700 rpm (IIRC).

veggie

[veggie]

Here's the 6/1 power curve....

veggie

[flywheel]

Jens, I'm assuming you want slow speed for noise control.

Actually it is more for the perceived longevity of a 24/7/365 operation.
I was also hoping for something physically smaller than a 6/1 but I suspected that I might not have much luck with that.
At my current location I do not have room for an additional 6/1 sized machine, never mind two of them for redundancy. I could drop the speed of my 20/2 to maybe 600 RPM and I even have the generator pulley for that but I just don't think it would be healthy for Thumper.
A little while ago there was a youtube clip mentioned on here. It was a 6/1 running at, IIRC below 500 rpm and the general consensus was that this can't be good for the engine.
The little CAT/Perkins engine was a nice size but being direct injected and high speed I am not sure how well they would last.
             
                  The mini Shibaura/Cat/Perkins engines are indeed indirect injection and they are rated to last 6000 hrs, much longer if operated at a reduced speed.
                                                                       Flywheel
Jens

[mobile_bob]

at 1.5kwatts output, it is going to be difficult to find something suitable for 24/7/365
that will return very good fuel consumption numbers in my opinion.

perhaps the little 3.3 hp watercooled engines that carrol stream once sold? run it till it pukes
and swap for a fresh unit?

what is the end use? or goal?
perhaps there is another option that will fit the need?

apart from the 3.3, i am with RCA... go with a derated r175 it at least has a real oil pump
and you can fit it with a filter

bob g

[bschwartz]

Jens, I thought if speed were dropped in half, wear dropped by 3/4?

I mean that wouldn't a 6000 hour lifespan go to 24000 if speed were dropped in half?

That would be closer to 2.75 years of nonstop running.  Not horrible depending on the cost of the unit and how expensive/difficult rebuilds are.  Granted it's no slow speed listeroid, but what can compare to them (no comments from the 1500 RPM screaming Changfa owners  )

[mobile_bob]

Brett:

thankfully nothing compares to a listeroid!!!



and that is all i am going to say!



except for this

show me a listeroid that will run even a year, 24/7/365 without the need for at least a dozen minor repairs, and likely a couple major
repairs, and you have something very rare
show me one that does the same 24/7/365 for 2.75 years, and i might call you a teller of tall tales!



bob g

[JohnF]

Bob;

Now ya just gone and done it!

I just took a 6/1 out of service that had over 26,000 hours on it.  In that time I did regular de-coke's by altenating out two heads (dirty one off, clean one on), changed/rebuilt two fuel pumps (veggie really does gum them up!) 2 sets of rings and one camshaft - at 23,000 hours or so.  I changed out the original big end bearings at 12,000 and put in plains with a Xyzer dipper.  The only reason it came out was that the new camshaft blew the gear and I didn't have time to mess with it.  It will be back up and running when I get a "round tuit"

Now, show me yer Chinga or whatever you call it......

[Henry W]

Hello Jens,

I also think a derated R175 would be a good way to go.

They are:

Inexpensive
Reliable
Easy to work on and rebuild.
A real oil pump, and has capability to install a good filtration system.
They are not known for breaking gears.

And if the engine does break down they are normaly easy and quick to get back up and running.

I my opinion it would be a good choice.

Henry

[vdubnut62]

rbodell on this forum runs a 6-1 at 350rpm on wmo, evidently he's been doing it for quite a while.
He does have a website with more detail.

http://rbodell.com/default.aspx

I don't know why the 20-2 wouldn't run at reduced rpm also. I'm a firm believer in use what you got.
Ron

[JohnF]

Jens;

From what I have seen, WVO tends to gum up the top rings after a few thousand hours.  On mine they were truly stuck in the grooves and needed to be broken out.  However, the 3rd and 4th compression ring were not too bad and could have been recovered, I just decided to change them all while I was on.  The oil ring seemed to be fine.  (On your 20/2 you likely have 3 compression rings and 2 oil rings)  I do not routinely pull the piston/cylinder, just when I feel it necessary, likely every 10k hours or so unless the engine tells me to do it earlier.

As for the camshaft, I changed it out because I was having valve problems.  The new one, unfortunately, did not last long at all.  I now know what he problem is with the cams and have a company in Kentucky working on a solution - especially for the twin guys.  I "should" have something solid in my hands in the next few weeks, I think it may solve a lot of the twin problems.  As soon as I have the results I will post them, but a short version is that the cam lobes are NOT in the correct position on the shaft, especially in the twins - this is probably causing all sorts of ignition/timing/vibration problems.

[Fat Charlie]

Bob;

Now ya just gone and done it!

I just took a 6/1 out of service that had over 26,000 hours on it.  In that time I did regular de-coke's by altenating out two heads (dirty one off, clean one on), changed/rebuilt two fuel pumps (veggie really does gum them up!) 2 sets of rings and one camshaft - at 23,000 hours or so.  I changed out the original big end bearings at 12,000 and put in plains with a Xyzer dipper.  The only reason it came out was that the new camshaft blew the gear and I didn't have time to mess with it.  It will be back up and running when I get a "round tuit"

Now, show me yer Chinga or whatever you call it......

I got one of those last month.  They still show a few in stock:
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20&zenid=362ead0383b6dba1f041ce7c407dcf54