Hello and Thank You

[V5CVBB]

I just registered a couple days ago and wanted to thank everyone that contributes for all the great info.  I started doing some reading recently about generators and it it lead me here.

I'm just looking to put together a back-up system and have no dreams of ever being off grid.  I can heat with kerosene and wood and make due with led flashlights for lighting.  Running my well pump when needed should be my largest load.  Last time our power was out we were lucky with plenty of drinking water and a pool full of water to flush the toilet with and the power was on the next day.  Don't expect to always be so fortunate.  My family spent Christmas with us as they went 5 days without power.

I'm guessing the well pump is 2HP.  It's 525ft deep.  My clamp on meter shows 9.8A running and a peak starting current of almost 40A on 240V.  Any opinions here would be much appreciated.  Ideally I would be able to run the freezer and refrigerator and still allow the pump to start up.

I really like what I've read about the PMG heads but not sure the utterpower unit would start my pump.  Next I guess is the 6.5kW PMG from Tom at Georgia Generator.  Otherwise I guess I'll go with an ST.  Right now I'm thinking of using a gas motor I already have until I can convince the wife we need a diesel.  Leaning toward the S195 Changfa if I had to buy something now.

Anyway, I just to take the time say Thank You.

Kevin

[mbryner]

Welcome Kevin!

40A at 240V is 9.6 KW.   Quite a starting load for a well pump, but you are 525 ft deep!   (And I thought 340 ft was deep.)   The 6.5 kw generator is going to have a hard time starting that load.

Anyway, we're glad you're here.

Marcus

[Jedon]

Aren't there soft start pump controllers that can dramatically reduce startup surge?

[XYZER]

you can store water in a tank.......just a thought

[Henry W]

Hello Kevin,

Glad to have you aboard.

I see you will be looking to build a genset based with an S195 in the future. I was under the same situation your in. My well pump manufacture requires over 9500 watt of output on a generator to start the well pump I have. So I thought about it for a long time and I wound up with a ST-12 Generator head. My recommendation is to buy a generator head larger than you need.

I pulled over 8400 watts continuous with the S195 for about an hour.
And surge, well I can safely run over 5000 watts continuous and then have the well pump kick and you would not even know it if you don't know what to look for. A slight blip heard from the exhaust, I get amperage spikes well over 50 amps and the gen-set just keeps running like its no big deal.

I also feel 6.5 Kw is not ideal in your situation. An ST-12 is hard to beat for the money and it will give you good service when you need it.

Here are some things to read.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=79.0

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=175.0

Henry

[mbryner]

Exactly.  That's why I mated a ST 7.5 to a Listeroid 6/1.   The 6/1 doesn't notice when an instantaneous load is greater than the 3 kw it can sustain, but the ST 7.5 can handle it.    Get the ST 12 and make sure the breakers are sized appropriately. 

[V5CVBB]

Thanks guys.

Guess I'm just not familiar with how a starting surge will effect things.

I did a quick search on soft start devices a while back. Nothing in my budget was obvious.   And a storage tank only goes so far with a wife and 2 boys.  I'll need the pump online at times.

Guess I look further into over sizing the head.  So much to learn.

Thanks for all the guidance.

Kevin

[Henry W]

Well I still like running my:

1.  2.5 ton HVAC in cold or Hot days.

2.  Electric water heater for those nice long HOT showers after a long day.

3.  Two Range tops including oven at once.

4.  Washer and dryer at once.

Oh, did I mention the well pump will kick on with no problems while one of the four catagories I listed are running. And lets not forget the lights and TV.

Never tried kicking over the HVAC and well pump at the same time. Boy that would be a load.

I found I can run multipal things at once as long as I time them right. I see it paid off getting a larger Gen-head. The thing is My house is 100% dependant on electricity. It would of been differant if I had gas cooking, Gas or Oil heat. Then I could of went with a slightly smaller setup. But with being 100% electric I can get buy with 12kw on extreem times.


But as you see others get along fine by taking a differant approch. And this is fine. I will also be taking a differant approch when it is time to remodel.

Henry

[Jedon]

I have a 2600g water tank 100ft elevation uphill with 3" pipe to the house. My on demand water heater is rated at 7gpm so lets say I'm showering and have a little cold thrown in there for 10gpm, that means showers could be had for 260 minutes or 4.3 hours, or for an average 15 minute shower, 17 showers divided between 4 people I guess you would last about 4 days.

[V5CVBB]

My home is the nearly the highest point on my property, so building a storage tank and running another smaller pump on the home side of the system doesn't sound like my best solution.  More money and maintenance.  I'm sure it's great in some applications though.

I think my best solution is finding a way to soft start the well pump or just go ahead and over size the generator head like Henry has done.

No wonder so many people buy those small packaged units.  I know I've been tempted.

Thanks again for the ideas and advice.

Kevin

[RJ]

Couple things here, are you sure your pump is at 525ft or is your just well that deep? What is your static water level? This all makes a difference. A 2hp pump is pretty good sized for residential. I just built a house and my well is 360 ft good for 45 gal/min. Now I don't need that much water so my pump is only at 275 feet. Last I checked my static was about 70 feet down. I used a Grundfos SQ series pump. The model I went with a 1.5hp soft start pump. These are perm. magnet pumps that spin up slowly. I run this with a cycle stock valve.

For a generator I run an ST-12 direct drive to a Kubota D905 diesel. With this setup I can pull about 8.5 kw before it starts to blow back smoke. When my pump starts you can't even tell. When I bought my head I wasn't sure if I was going to go direct drive or belt. I knew if I ran the engine up about 2400 RPM I could get pretty close to 12kw out of the engine.

I agree though with what the others have said. I have all gas appliances so this is plenty of power for what I need. I put over 160 hours on my unit when I was building the house. It ran great. I would go with a 12kw head and match the engine accordingly. I don't know how old your pump is, if it's old you might consider installing a soft start pump.

-RJ

[Jedon]

I run the same pump as RJ, off a 12HP Lister SR2 with a 5400W Lima alternator. My inverters can supplement generator juice though but I have no idea if they do or not. 

[mbryner]

Ditto here.   I run a Grunfos SQ at 320 ft deep (static 130-150 ft).   It's nice to hear some other guys have one too.   They're a little spendy, but it seems to be worth it.   I sized it for low GPM so the well never runs dry and it can be powered by a ST 5 or inverters easily.

Marcus

[V5CVBB]

Good points.  We bought the house last March.  The previous owner built the home with his uncle in 1973.  I think the pump in there now is the 2nd pump but I have no idea how old it is.  He told me the well was 525ft but I never asked how deep the pump is.  I'll try to ask next time I hear from him.  I've been concerned about the expense when the pump finally dies. 

I had ran across the Grunfos in my studies.  Sound like great pumps that I will look at when I do replace mine.  Glad to hear others are pleased with them.

I looked at the Georgia Generator web site and he has listings for the ST12KW with and without the AVR.  I didn't know that was an option until this morning.  What's the general opinion on the voltage regulators?  I'll do some reading in the Alternator section later.

Thanks again,

Kevin 

[RJ]

Look at your well it should have a state tag on it. On this tag it should have who drilled the pump. You can call them and they should have records of the well. The state you live in should also have records on the well, including depth, flow rate etc.  The only reason I could see you having the pump down that low would be a low yield and the well is being used as a tank. You can drop a rock down it and count how long it takes to hit the water. That should tell you what the static level is. It possible though the static is very low and you well yields plenty of water. It depends in what part of the country you live in really.