gas engine genset? hmmm

[veggie]

For anyone interested, here's a presentation on Honda's micro CHP unit designed for residential use.
Runs on natural gas, has a water cooled 4 stroke engine with integeral alternator windings, and provides water heating.
Runs as quite and a fridge.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.builditsolar.com%2FExperimental%2FCoGeneration%2FHondaCHPbbezilla.pdf&ei=wp27Sp3fBIO4swOHpdDcBQ&rct=j&q=honda+micro+CHP&usg=AFQjCNFG1yEs5R3zUrOdJdEzjvxYJplKiA

Veggie

[Henry W]

Looks pretty intresting. I need to read about it tonight.

Henry

[mobile_bob]

been following the development from concept to prototype to production of the honda
unit since back about'98 or '99

really neat little unit, a bit small for most of us, but clearly illustrates what is possible with cogeneration

as far as i am concerned it is the gold standard we diy'er cogen wannabee's should aspire to,

their prototype unit reached an overall efficiency of 90% and i see the production unit is rated at 85% overall efficiency

thats with a natural gas ICE as the prime mover, and a very small one at that.

i see no reason that a diy'er cogen couldn't reach into the low 80's in overall efficiency, last testing i did on mine
i was knocking on the door of the mid 70's and there is more improvement to be made.

this is where it is at, as far as i am concerned this will be the one exemption that might be allowed from the epa for
these engine's if we tag along and get our foot in the door.

scale that honda unit up a bit to maybe 3kwatt electrical and 15kbtu heat recovery, and it would be a much more marketable
product here in america in my opinion.

really cool unit though

bob g

[admin]

and its another example of a vertically mounted generator,, whats the deal anyway???

jeesh,, maybe we're the ones behind the times???

lmao

maybe its a "spark ignition" thing?

maybe those gasser boys never got the memo about mounting horizontally?

and the original guy with the welder truck is a welder, and we all know those guys
have a different orientation than most of us, maybe vertical to us is horizontal to him?

lol

damn Jen's and i was planning on building one of those vertical mounted units for my basement,
but wait,, i don't have a basement!

too funny!

maybe we all need to lighten up a bit, and get on with the business of building a really good forum?

[Henry W]

I Agree,

Jens, I did not mean to get you worked up.

Henry

[Henry W]

Agreed on most points Bob except one ..... I think that the low power unit is more versatile than you admit. You don't want to generate more heat you can use and if you have a larger engine and run it continuously you might get to the point where you can't use all the heat.
With the whole thing hooked up as a net metering situation, you can generate all the electricity you need from a small unit running continuously.

Jens

I would think a little over sized than what you need is ok. You can always dump the extra heat. Yes you would loose some efficency. If you can get close to what you need, efficency loss would be less. Some good points made. I see this will be an intresting topic.

[Henry W]

The problem is in most places of the country energy requirments are differant throughout the year. Does this mean to keep the efficency up you will need more than one unit?

Henry

[veggie]

Re: High efficiencies.
One item of importance on the Honda CHP units is that they encapsulate the alternator in the same water cooled housing as the engine, hence recovering any lost heat from the gen head. If inefficiencies in a generator emerge as waste heat, and if that heat is recovered for use, then I assume the power generation portion of the Honda could be running upwards of 98% efficient. ??

Veggie

[Henry W]

I guess one way to harvest heat from a warm gen-head during the heating seasons. This is if you have forced hot air, Is to hook up a feed and return air duct to the gen-head. Plumb one end the Gen-head to the return  side of the air handler and the other end of the gen-head plumbed to another room away from the return. The return will draw the air from the gen-head.

Henry

[Henry W]

Your right, you would have noise. I did not think about noise.

Thinking back a couple weeks ago when I was running some load tests. I found out my ST-12 head running at 6900 watts for an hour only got to 92 deg. F on an 88 deg. F afternoon. Not much heat coming from it.

Henry

[panaceabeachbum]

Thats ok, Here is a nice little gas powered genset I can bring with me in my back pack when I am camping. That way I don't have to rub two sticks together to start a fire to see during the night. sure hate to piss on this thing during the night.

there was a fellow on ebay recently with some of thes O+R gen in military dress , olive drab , new in the box .

I picked one of these up from HF last week $99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66619

[lowspeedlife]

this sounds like the perfect place for an ammonia absorption system Jens, a couple of tubes go in to a coil, the heat gets absorbed & you make cold air on the other end, No?

      Scott R.

[EBI-WPO]

Mobile-Bob,

>i got a NOS 16hp B&S to work with, but could use an electric start for it.
anybody got a link to one of those delco starter/generators they used to belt drive these
big single cyl briggs engines with?<

Do you still want to try one of these? Digging around, I have a complete unit on a 12hp(?) Kohler.

Terry

[mike90045]

A 12hp(1cyl) is the biggest I've seen with a starter/generator. The 16hp B&s may be too much for a starter/generator, if you have one to try you won't have anything to lose. If it doesn't work have a look on ebay you may find enough parts to convert it over the hard way.
-dan 

I had a Honda TN-360 truck in Okinawa. It was the 360cc Air cooled motorcycle engine, with a starter/generator. No maintenance needed on that part for the year I used it.  Getting flats repaired in the split-rim wheels was the real pain

[Henry W]

Well guys here is an email from Charles.
He is the person that ownes the Verticle Shaft Gen-set.

Here it is:

The generator has been doing great, I am still very pleased with it. Business has been slow and I have been busy with other projects, so I haven't been using it daily. I blew the diode bridge a few weeks back when I shorted my welder cord, but there was no major damage to the head. To replace it, I found a very nice military surplus GE bridge that I hope to install this weekend. Hope all is well there, thanks for the email.

Charles