Hope I dont break any rules, but here goes...

[Westcliffe01]

I made the mistake of buying a house in Michigan in 2006 that has essentially trapped me in the state for about the following 14 years because I was upside down on the mortgage / home valuation from my second month of home ownership to more or less 2020...

Finally I am in a position where there is an actual housing shortage (after 14 years of no building) and where house prices have been appreciating.  Given the passage of time, I have been renovating the house because all the appliances, furnace, water heater etc needed to be replaced since they were all at end of life.  In addition I have done a strip to the studs of the master bath and rebuild since it was a case of using very expensive materials with extremely poor execution.   Now I'm into a total kitchen renovation which started with removing all the cabinets, chipping up the tile floor, pulling up the cement board and preparing for new wall to wall tile.   I also am laying new tile in a basement room that used to be carpeted.  And I resurfaced the deck and paid to get some large and dangerous trees removed after we had a tree fall on the roof last year and that forced the replacement of all the shingles and ice shield.   So the new owner should have few worries for a long time given all the work I have put into it and I have not used contractors.

Now I am looking to get out of our high property tax, most outrageous car insurance state that is MI.  I live in a rural community of Napoleon MI which has a median household income of about $46k and here I pay $4k property tax a year on my 1300 sq ft house sitting on 1/3 of an acre on a dirt road.  My homeowners insurance is $2400/yr.  Car insurance is $3600/yr for 3 cars that all have over 135k miles and the newest is a 2013.   Im looking to move to an unincorporated part of TN and buy as much land as I can afford in the woods.  My budget is between $40k-$90k at the top end.  I plan to build a 40'x64' shop with a small living space along one of the 40' end walls.  Buy a pole barn KIT from one of the big box stores and have a local contractor put up the shell.  Once it is dried in then I will get to work on the build out. 

It will have a heated slab and the living space will have its own loops so it can be regulated separate from the shop space.  The interior walls will be sheathed in plywood and steel liner panel then applied to that so that it is easy to hang anything off the walls without needing to find a stud or girt.  The sheathing should also improve the racking strength of the structure and go a long we to helping seal it up against bugs and other critters.  Of course it will add some cost.   So far I have not made a decision on the primary doors.  So far I have found the pannelised doors to leak too much air and move around in the wind so still considering my options.  I would ideally like a one piece door that can seal effectively when it is closed.   I need to give some thought as to letting light in.  The method that a lot of barns have used is to have clear panels at the upper end of the walls seems to be effective, its just a question of getting something that integrates well with the exterior metal.

So what do you guys think ?  Big shop, small living space.  Plenty of flat concrete to pre-fabricate parts of the main house which would be built later.  Keeping material out of the weather etc.  So far Menards has given a quote for a material kit for the shell at about $35k and it seems that hiring a crew to put it up would run another $15k.  Thoughts ?

[Tom Reed]

Sounds like a great plan if there is no wife involved.

[Henry W]

I think it's a good plan.

I can read the writing on the wall that it's just about time for myself to pack up and move after my daughter finishes college.

The major cities in North Carolina have attracted migrants from northern cities and there is not enough new housing. So property and rent prices are out of control.

I figure that my move will probably happen within two years.

I'm looking forward for change.

Looking forward to hear more.

[Westcliffe01]

Tom, my young wife will probably hang back in MI for a few more years to save up for the kind of house that she wants.  We own a second smaller house that we bought as an abandoned repossession, 100yo with plaster and lath interior, no insulation, the old asbestos insulated wire strung between ceramic posts.  We spent 3 years renovating that place and she owns it free and clear so she can sell that and take the proceeds towards her home budget.   

At least when we start the "real" house we wont be camping in a trailer on the back 40...

[glassblower]

Were doing the same thing, bought a Menards barn kit, hired a local guy to put it up since we're 3 hours away. It took me all summer to clear an acre of woods, haul dirt and level the pad (very hilly here). Don't forget all of the stone for the drive and the barn pad. I have about 10K in stone for a 500' drive and the pad. Stone is about $30 / ton delivered. Concrete is now $200 a yard, and I don't think I'm going to pour this year. The money will add up fast with all the other things you might forget about. If things go sideways soon, well live in the barn, other wise building a small house in a few years.

[glassblower]

Our builder put up a 48'x48' barn for $14K and he placed the stone inside and leveled, hired the crane, poured the post pads. The Amish quotes were around $12K but they wanted me to hire the crane and pour the post pads so it all worked out about the same cost. I have a ton of wood left over from the Menards kit. I don't know who screwed up but I think they gave me way too much lumber. I have enough to build my room after I pour half a slab. My present barn (40x64) has the whole floor heated with a Taki on demand water heater and it works great. My plan on this barn is to do the same only three zones and build a small room like yours that's finished off with steel.

[Tom Reed]

Ah, I tried to do that kind of setup on our property, the wife figured out she could get a much bigger house with the $$$ from the shop if "we" didn't build it. So we have a big house and no shop. I do have a large daylight basement to work in, as long as I don't make any nasty smells or smoke.

[Westcliffe01]

Tom, I have been living that situation for over 30 years already, but my ability to earn an income is going to depend on me having a shop and fixing other peoples cars.  I dont think a true retirement is going to be on the cards for many of us.   Therefore I am going to be spending the proceeds of the sale of my house on getting the shop and she is free to save as much as she wants to get the sort of house she wants...  Doing something with other peoples money is a game.  No way I am commuting to a corporate job any more...