Running a Clone on #2 Fuel Oil

[rcavictim]

Here's an idea!  How about making a refrigeration system that will bring the temperature of a oil flow in a small hose from the water contaminated fuel supply tank to somewhat below the freezing temperature of water.  This would cause any water to form crystals in suspension in the oil.  Force this chilled oil through a fine metal mesh sieve filter that is also refrigerated to below freezing.  The fine mesh of the sieve system will trap ice particles.  Once in a while the unit is shut off and cooling function turned off.  Electric heat can be applied to the sieve filter and the accumulated ice will melt and can be let out through a drain valve.

You could make this using components from a small fridge or beverage chiller.

[dubbleUJay]

We've got a few great thinkers on this forum and IMHO, you're one of them RCAvictim! (And "no", I don't want anything, just a compliment)

I've got no idea if it will work and why not, but I'm waiting for the answer in great anticipation and I'm sure we'll get it soon! 
Its good to think in the opposite direction some times as in HEAT vs COLD.

Great stuff!

[rcavictim]

That may work with diesel but not with WVO as the oil will have crystals in it at that temperature (or be solid)

Jens

Jens,

Red highlighting mine. This is entirely my point and how my idea is supposed to work.  Temperature control would be an obvious part of the refrigeration system and the temperature could be optimized for the viscocity of the particular product being filtered.  I agree that some fuels might become solid at the temperatures needed to freeze out the water and obviously those fuels could not be treated in this manner.

I think some of the other undesireable pollutants which are bound to the water would also end up being removed in this freezing filter system as well.

I'd like to point out that the title of this thread is about using #2 fuel oil which is very similar to pump diesel fuel.  The topic was not about WVO at all.

[cognos]

Yes, we do indeed seem to have strayed somewhat from the original brief... perhaps the mod could strip out the extraneous content for a separate thread?

In keeping with the current thread hijack  , cryogenic cyclonic filtration is indeed one of the methods used to dewax lube oil feedstocks.

The feedstock is chilled to the point where wax crystals form, then this slurry is passed through a vessel containing multiple staged cyclones - like 5 sets of 3-stage cyclones (think Dyson vacuum cleaner) - the wax drops out of the bottom of the cyclone stack and is passed on for cracking, the dewaxed feedstock passes out the top of the vessel to lube prep.

And yes, the first things to drop out are those with the longest carbon chains, and would typically produce more BTU's in an engine.

("Ice" beer is made the same way - in this case, the crystals cycloned out are proteins. Ice beer protein crystals are a poor diesel fuel. Or so I hear... )

[rcavictim]

While you are correct that the thread is for #2 fuel oil, like so many threads it had drifted and we (or at least I) was talking about getting water out of WVO.
Like we both said, it might work with #2 fuel oil but not with WVO. I have loads of WVO that has gone from crystal clear at 20C to translucent at about 8C. If I were to attempt to filter that, it would plug up the works in no time flat because of the little solid fat molecules in it.
BTW, there is more energy in the solidified stuff then the liquid stuff so if you filtered out the crystals you would remove the higher grade fuel component.
I guess it is all relative in the world ... if I was living in an area that regularly got to well below freezing then maybe I would filter at freezing temperature (don't know the implications of all this though)

Jens

GREEN:  I never specifically suggested it "would not work" on WVO.

PURPLE: I was not thinking of any sieve with such tiny orfices as to be on the molecular level.  That is extremely small.  I doubt you could force even gasoline through a molecular sieve without considerable pressure.  A molecular sieve is of the order that could remove die coloring from colored gasoline.  Even in VWO heated to 100C those "little fat molecules" would be considered solids because as soon as they break apart they would no longer be "fat molecules".  Perhaps what you are referring to as "little fat molecules" are aggregate clumps of lipids.  The explanation may be found here.  

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Courses/bio104/lipids.htm

and here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobic_effect

[dubbleUJay]

rcavictim, I've got one of those old dehumidifiers that were used in bank vaults exec.
It consists of an "oversize" fridge/freezer type compressor and a coil or loop of piping. It runs for a preset time and collect any water molecules present in the air by freezing them to the coil.
Then it switches of for a while to let the collected ice defrost and drip down to a collection vessel.

I was wondering if this method might work in the way you described if the coils were to be submersed in fuel (not VO)

dubbleUJay
PS- This should probably go to a new thread, sorry guys 

[rcavictim]

rcavictim, I've got one of those old dehumidifiers that were used in bank vaults exec.
It consists of an "oversize" fridge/freezer type compressor and a coil or loop of piping. It runs for a preset time and collect any water molecules present in the air by freezing them to the coil.
Then it switches of for a while to let the collected ice defrost and drip down to a collection vessel.

I was wondering if this method might work in the way you described if the coils were to be submersed in fuel (not VO)

dubbleUJay
PS- This should probably go to a new thread, sorry guys  

dubbleUJay,

Refridgeration systems in bank vaults are not for humidity control.  Have you never heard the expression "cold, hard cash"?  

A dehumidifier system might work as you suggest.  They are not extremely powerful but at a low flow rate or perhaps filling a small volume tank around the evaporator coils with the product to be processed and run through a cycle, then sent on and replenished with a new batch might be possible, warming the coils in between to drain off the water and other junk.

I think you should try this and report the results of your experimentaion here in a new thread of your own creation.  That's a very good idea for the simple fact that there is no hardware to fabricate in order to test the hypothisis.

I have some ideas that I have not shared which I just don't have time to pursue with all of the other irons I have in the fire.  That wind turbine is still job#1 for me consuming all of my limited human resources.  After that I see other big time consumers awaiting my attention next on the list.  One of the short list projects is to finish a fuel filtration system already half built, that will allow my inventory of used ATF to work in a diesel generator without ruining it in short order.  Not so much trouble with the firearms but the alcohol and tobacco cause corrosion and quickly foul up the pump and injectors.

[dubbleUJay]

Refridgeration systems in bank vaults are not for humidity control.  Have you never heard the expression "cold, hard cash"?   

I think you should try this and report the results of your experimentaion here in a new thread of your own creation.....
I just don't have time to pursue with all of the other irons I have in the fire.....

Like someone said elsewhere in the forum, I also like your sense of humor! 

The unit I have is a portable one, it was actually used in an British made Electro-mechanical Telephone Exchange years back, but I saw them in bank vaults a few times when I installed CCTV&Security Systems for them, so I thought mentioning that application was the most appropriate to understand.

Anyway, they operate exactly how you described, but like you, I'll have to do the experiment sometime in the future with all the other stuff on my "fork" 

They work great for drying "Biltong" a delicacy in ZA which is ultimately spiced stripes of dried meat, I forgot what you guys call it in the US

dubbleUJay

[rcavictim]

We call that dried seasoned meat jerkey.  Most often found commercially here (Canada) is beef jerkey but there is DIY homebrew jerkey as well.  Deer meat makes good jerkey.  Sorry for the OT content but food is a subject I hold dear. 

[LincTex]

One of the short list projects is to finish a fuel filtration system already half built, that will allow my inventory of used ATF to work in a diesel generator without ruining it in short order. 

What could possibly be wrong with it? What should I be looking for?

I filter it a bit and mix it with diesel - I have been doing it for years.  Is there something else I should know?

[rcavictim]

One of the short list projects is to finish a fuel filtration system already half built, that will allow my inventory of used ATF to work in a diesel generator without ruining it in short order.  

What could possibly be wrong with it? What should I be looking for?

I filter it a bit and mix it with diesel - I have been doing it for years.  Is there something else I should know?

Used ATF has a high quantity of very abrasive fine particulate in suspension in it from the bands and clutches that wear inside the transmission.  This will do wear damage to the IP and the injectors.  In my case the injectors fouled very quickly even when diluted to 20% with 80% diesel.  In hindsight I would have been better off collecting used motor oil instead.

edited too fix typo.

[LincTex]

Used ATF has a high quantity of very abrasive fine particulate in suspension in it from the bands and clutches that wear inside the tranbsmission.  This will do wear damage to the IP and the injectors. 

Interesting. I filter down to 6 microns - - I use an old primary/secondary set-up from an old truck on my pickup. I figure anything smaller than 6 micron size won't do any damage. The filters used on diesel pumps at filling stations only go down to 20 microns.

[rcavictim]

I started the construction of a long path filter that consists of a vertical 6" PVC pipe about 8 feet long to be filled with kitty litter or whatever about 6 years ago.  I plan to pump my recovered usd ATF and other stuff into the bottom of this column filter with a small gear pump and take what comes out the top through a 2 micron spin-on fuel filter and then into my storage supply tank.  This should give me some very clean fuel oil.

I looks like finishing this DIY filter ought to be a project to complete this winter.  Earlier the better.  I need fuel for my shop generator.

[vdubnut62]

RCA, are you planning to "cut" the oil/ATF first or just filter it neat?
Do you mix in some RUG/diesel/kero to modify the viscosity, or use it for fuel as is? Do you check the PH?
Sorry for the  60 questions and all that.
Ron

[rcavictim]

RCA, are you planning to "cut" the oil/ATF first or just filter it neat?
Do you mix in some RUG/diesel/kero to modify the viscosity, or use it for fuel as is? Do you check the PH?
Sorry for the  60 questions and all that.
Ron

Some of the first product that will be sent through my new filter has already been diluted with 50% diesel but is too dirty to be used.  It has been sitting in a barrel indoors, undisturbed for about 8 years.  Fortunately all of my used ATF has been sitting undisturbed for that long so it has already had gravity at work cleaning it up.  I plan to pull off the top of the tank without disturbing it.

I refuse to have any oil inside my workshop building cut with gasoline because of the explosive vapor pressure issues that creates.  If the oil is too viscous sometimes I cut it with pump diesel but that gets expensive.  The cheapest way I deal with too thick is by adding heat.

I have never checked the PH of my fuel yet.  I do not have the necessary litmus paper.