How to pull a Gib ?

[Crumpite]

Hi, It's me again with another question. 

I decided to take a look at my camshaft area to check for excessive play, and tried to pull the camshaft/govener cover off my Metro brand listeroid.

Well, it seems that on my machine there isn't enough room to pull the thing off without removing the flywheel, which of course, means pulling the blasted gib pin.

This seems to be the most dreaded operation on listers, so I was hoping that someone had an easy method (snickering is heard in the background...)

It looks like I might need to get a hefty piece of steel, cut a 2" hole in it and cut a slice out to fit over the gib, then drill and tap three holes for pusher bolts.
Or is there an easier method ?

Thanks again,
Daryl

[dubbleUJay]

Hi Daryl, your explanation for a puller is about the easiest way I know of, just make the plate and bolts as big as possible! I think UtterPower sells something similar.
On some of the "original" Lister's I've pulled the keys, this method didn't work, then I constructed a puller similar to that to grip the key, but with some extension on it to fit a 30ton bottle jack between it and the crankshaft end.
Heating the hub of the flywheel while pulling helps, but a lot of heat is needed!

Failing all that, on one occasion I got the one wheel off (luckily), the others key broke of flush to the hub and I had to take the crank and the stuck flywheel out with the bearing end covers and put it into a 60ton press!

But that is probably an extreme case, the 'roids keys shouldn't be that stuck I would think.

[mbryner]

You can always use a slide-hammer.      That's what I've done in the past.   (For those of us who don't have access to a thick hunk of steel and a way to drill a 2 inch hole in it.)   Dangerous and not easy but it worked.

Marcus

[dubbleUJay]

You can always use a slide-hammer.

Marcus, how did you attach the hammer to the Gib, arc-welding or do you have some type of grip-thingy
I've used it, but try welding to the key as a last resort as to try and re-use it again.

[mbryner]

The one I used was borrowed from a friend who did auto-body work.   It had a L-shaped end which just fit over the lip of the jib key.   Guess I could have tack welded it in place, but a few good whacks of the hammer freed up one side.   The other side was a bit of a bear, involving smashing a portion of my thigh in the hammer slot.......

[JohnF]

This can be really tough and it is pretty easy to break the head off the gib key (don't ask!!)

First, clean off all the nice green paint from the junction of the key and the wheel, while you are on you might also want to do around the wheel as well.  Next, take a Dremel and clean up the keyway, paying special attention to the sides - usually when the Indians drive the key in they damage the ways.  Even a very small piece of metal can stop a key dead.  Now, with the keyway up, make a bit of a dam about an inch from the end of the key and fill up the way with WD40 or something similar - the idea is to get oil to penetrate along the key.  Let it soak in for a couple of days

Make your puller as you described - what you need is something that PUSHES the wheel away from the key (hard to do if the wheel has been installed flush up against the crankcase).  Start tightening the bolts and pray to whatever God you subscribe to.  Generally, if you have done it right the key will begin to move, once you get it moving even slightly you have won the battle.

If you break the head off there are a couple of options - weld a new one on or look for the oldest, most grizzled welder in your area (the one that has scars all over him) and pay him to blow out the remains of the key - these guys can do it easily.  You can even drill out the remains of the key with long bits and patience - it is tough, but can be done and you will need to make a guide.  Worst case, as WJ mentioned, take off the other side, remove the whole assembly and drill it out.

[WGB]

I have pulled flywheels that weigh up to 10,000 pounds this way.
Jens told me this is not the way to do it because you'll peal the head off the key.
Your plan is probably the best way to go about pulling a Listeroid key.
If you use my way, clean the shaft, use PB Blaster, Kroil, or some high dollar creeping penetrant oil.
http://www.kanolabs.com/google/
Install the set up like I have in the pic, Tap the wedge up snug, over the next day or so use penetrant is needed and TAP walk away, later TAP walk away.
I good mechanical touch/feel for things is needed, guys that twist nuts and bolts off all the time should STAY AWAY lol

[WGB]

Oh another thing to this, like JohnF said it's the flywheel and key are moving apart more that the key being pulled!
And if you had two taper wedges like I used one each way would be great, nice even pressure on the head, not the shear action in the pics.

[veggie]

Here's the puller that Central Maine Diesel sells.
Their part number is 0E6241 for the listeroid 6/1.

Here's the link...
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Gib_Key_Puller.asp?page=Gib_Key_Puller

Below is a picture...

Veggie

[mbryner]

Veggie's method with the purpose made gib puller from CMD is probably the best.  I've also used WGB's method with the wedges and it worked great.   The wedges worked when the slide-hammer didn't.

[lowspeedlife]

I would avoid the heat applied to the fly wheel if possible, especially if this is a 'Roid & not a real lister. the cast iron the flywheels is suspect & heating with a torch could cause cracks in the voids in the flywheel. & that would be very bad indeed.

  Scott R.

[Crumpite]

Folks,

Thanks for all the tips !

I won't be ordering too many gib pullers at $67 each plus postage...

A friend just gifted me a 3' piece of 4"x6" 1/4 hot rolled angle - between that and my little 6" Atlas Lathe and Shaper I'm sure I can come up with something cheaper. 

I like the idea of using two opposed wedges - it's the easiest to build and it it doesn't work, I can build a full-blown puller.
(I just hate tapping holes)

Wonderful advice folks, It's nice to see the range of "no problem" to "well, when you shear off the head of the pin...". 

Thanks again,
Daryl

[mbryner]

Sounds like Jens is speaking from experience! 

[Crumpite]

Jeez, even more good advice... Sheesh
This forum is a gem !

Ok, I'll run down to the local steel supplier Monday and get a chunk or 1/2 or 3/4 to make the puller from.

I can see why the whole CHP movement is limited to such a small group - You've gotta be a near expert (at least by today's standards) in a good half dozen different trades.

In a SF book I read once, they had a new occupation, the JOAT (jack of all trades). They were used as translators between specialists, who otherwise couldn't understand each other. 
They were universally despised, just like today. 

Luckily I've always described myself as a jack of all trades and master of a half-dozen or so...
It helps to have grown up on a farm, I guess. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming,
Daryl

[veggie]

I have pulled flywheels that weigh up to 10,000 pounds this way.
Jens told me this is not the way to do it because you'll peal the head off the key.
Your plan is probably the best way to go about pulling a Listeroid key.
If you use my way, clean the shaft, use PB Blaster, Kroil, or some high dollar creeping penetrant oil.
http://www.kanolabs.com/google/
Install the set up like I have in the pic, Tap the wedge up snug, over the next day or so use penetrant is needed and TAP walk away, later TAP walk away.
I good mechanical touch/feel for things is needed, guys that twist nuts and bolts off all the time should STAY AWAY lol

This looks like a good method...

Where can we get metal wedges like the ones you show in your example?
Are they a standard tool which is usually easy to find?

Thanks,
veggie