anybody, or any info on ammonia systems

[mobile_bob]

ok guys it has been years since this topic came up

i am looking for anyone with experience with ammonia cooling systems

particularly batch fired systems, that being fired for ~ 1hour and then cooling for several hours, then refire, (wash/rinse/repeat)

i am thinking maybe there is someone, or maybe someone that knows someone, who knows a guy, who has an uncle, who works
with this sort of thing in an ice plant or some other large scale operation that might shed some light on the subject.

anyone?

bob g

[mike90045]

Thinking of something like the Crosley Icy Ball ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icyball
http://crosleyautoclub.com/IcyBall/HomeBuilt/HallPlans/IB_Directions.html


The only caveat is use the right materials that won't corrode and leak toxic amounts of highly concentrated ammonia into your living space

[mobile_bob]

yes the icy ball is exactly what i have in mind, just on a larger scale

having excess heat available in the summertime from the cogen/trigen would make a batch fire absorption system feasible
in my thinking.

and no i would not have this in or around my living space, and frankly i probably would set it up on the other side of the building
that houses the generation unit and all its gear.

much like our city water treatment plant where the filtration units are in the main part of the building and the chlorination equipment are in a separate part of the building accessible only from another exterior door. and with its own ventilation system.

i would probably use a heat exchanger to move the cold via antifreeze mix to where i would be using it, such as in the house, maybe.

edit:  forgot my manners! 
thanks Mike 

the second link is interesting, in that apparently there are other building these things.
just wish there were more on google, there probably is, i just need to take more time to dig a bit more.
bob g

[glort]

It's an interesting method of cooling and surprising it's not used more widely.  Probably cost/ hazard / and efficiency come into play. Probably also few people in domestic setups that have waste heat available.  If I could build a big enough one, might fulfil my dream of storing summer heat to use in winter and then cooling that down to use in summer.


I remember being fascinated as a Kid when I would go away in the caravan with my grandparents.  Amazed me how my grandfather could light a flame in the refrigerator and get the hot to make cold.  I remember he was always VERY particular about getting the van spot on level. The more level the thing was, better the fridge worked.  They then got a 3 way  Fridge that worked on gas, 12V and 240V.  240 was far and away the best.  In the old days they had a home refrigerator that ran on Kerosene.  Apparently it was only when you couldn't get kero models any more gran updated to an electric one but was pretty ho hum about it.

I have been going to build an AC unit for the house out of a car AC. They put out about the same cooling power as a Mid Size split.  Can't see a lot of reason why a domestic Split unit couldn't have the compressor removed and use a compressor or 2  from a car, engine driven.

Perhaps before you got too far into the ammonia system, it might be wise to calculate the amount of waste heat you have available and what sort of Cooling BTU's  you would get from it.  Bound to be an efficiency loss and you wouldn't want to build it and then figure the heat input you have is only good for running a large chest Freezer.  OTOH, if the system was big enough I could help you build a waste oil burner that would turn your whole home into a freezer.

Going to be well over 40oc here tomorrow. In American measurements, That's bloody hot.
I'll have the AC on early with the water spray on the condenser to help it along. I can  run the big Ducted AC and still be exporting solar power.  :0)

[Henry W]

The Icy ball is interesting. Need to do sit down and go through it. Years ago in the early 80's I worked on an ammonia system in an ice plant and at the time I did not understand how dangerous it was working with ammonia. Here is a link. https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/ammonia_refrigeration/emergency/index.html
And I agree with keeping the system separate from living quarters. It would be much safer. At one time I was reading about other refrigerants somewhat close to the efficiency of R717 with less toxicity and corrosiveness. Other refrigerants such as R32, R600a and R290 (propane) has its own safety and health risks. This would also be a good topic to discuss possible alternatives.

Here is some good reading. https://www.fluorocarbons.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/RealAlternatives-1-Introduction-to-Alt-Ref-Feb15.pdf

Henry