epa cuts and the future of chp

[mobile_bob]

its taken a very long time for the worm to turn, and i guess to those who wait all things will come?

got an email solicitation from the epa's combined heat and power group, they relate that the president has cut
the epa's budget by 32% and is doing away with things like the combined heat and power efforts of the epa.

they are looking for signatures for a letter to congress to save their group and its efforts.

me?  i would be much more receptive to signing a letter "if" and only "if" the epa would pull back its draconian restrictions that has proven to pretty much kill the independent efforts of so many fine folks via the banning of CI (compression ignition) engine (aka diesel's) back in what ?  '05?  has it been that long?

talk about stifling innovation and creativity!  and for what?  to protect those at the top of the food chain at the expense of so many little guys, of which maybe  a few might have made a significant contribution to just what it was the epa was trying to do!

again, i won't be signing any such letter, unless there is a rollback of the regulation on sub 25hp CI engine's by the epa, or
alternatively i would be very much in favor of testifying to congress in committee about what it is we do, what we have done, and more importantly what we could be doing if given half a chance.

i  wonder how many apple computers, microsofts, amazon, googles, etc would have come to life had they had the EPA regulating them out of existence before they even got off the ground?

think what you will of mr. trump, however any man or woman that can bring some measure of sanity to these bureaucracy's even if it means cutting off their food source (read that money) is ok by me.   

it is way past time for the pendulum to swing our way in my opinion.

don't know about all the rest of you guys, but i am tired of being the mole on the "whack a mole" table!

nice to have someone try to take away the mallet, or at least reduce the size of the damn thing!

bob g

[LowGear]

Aloha bob,

I live in the DIY camp as do many if not most of the readers and contributors here and at LEF.  I have no tolerance for NO TOLERANCE programs.  Hence my discomfort with the nitty-gritty rules that effect 1% of the 1% that peruse their dreams. 

However, I'm afraid that you've misinterpreted the crippling of the US EPA.  This move is another in the unrelenting dream of the super rich, like President Trump, to own the entire planet completely not just 90+ percent of it.  If they were left wingers then they would be labeled wealth RE-distributors but as conservatives we all know they're the courageous and freedom loving job creators.  Yep, them guys work for us.  You see, this exclusive group has lots of their marbles tied up in fossil fuels and they don't want to loose their marbles.  And the sustainable life on this planet folks just don't understand what these investments represent.  What do you want in your back yard?  A solar station or a coal fired power plant?  Tough decision - Huh?  In some chumps back yard that lives 150 miles from you in an ungated community?  Not so tough especially when you're saving humanity.  From?

As for us that dream; are our fancies of a private power station more important than the health struggles of the growing asthmatic people in the US and probably soon the world?  Balance.  Is it achievable?  I've heard that sewer ditches, yup - ditches, have saved more lives than any other single public health initiative.

Consider that regulations cost money while non regulations cost lives.  What is the price of freedom?

Casey

Some no longer defensible practices:

     Two Cycle Outboards
     Diesel School Buses
     Coal Mining
     Thinking

[mike90045]

I'd ratchet the threshold to <20hp, and only water cooled, hard to co-produce with air cooled engine.  I wonder if a modern material Lister 8/1 could be built - even a run of 1,000 would be a boost.  Would be nice to have balanced gear without voids and pits.   Even with the factory glop painted in the crankcase, oil drips through the iron.

[AdeV]

I don't have a dog in this fight, being as I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic (and/or the Pacific... nearer that ocean at the moment), but Casey I have to pull you up one part of your post:

...You see, this exclusive group has lots of their marbles tied up in fossil fuels and they don't want to loose their marbles...

Surely, in that case, the use and abuse of small diesel engines of ANY description would be welcomed, indeed, encouraged by said people? After all, most will run them on diesel, not WVO or WMO, and they all need "fossil" oil etc.

Just my 0.02 CNY.

[LowGear]

Aloha AdeV,

Yes, I agree with you.  Holy smoke, made from recycled pasteboard boxes of course, we're in agreement.  As I reread my post of yesterday I'm still happy with it.  The part that I didn't emphasize enough was that the ruling class don't really give a damn about our few thousand gallons of diesel per year.  If we get brought in that's simply our good fortune but not a priority in the plan.  In fact, we could be easily sacrificed to demonstrate how they're working to make the air clean enough for humans.  Their plan involves millions of gallons of fossil fuel per day.  OK, millions of barrels every day.  Even mike90045's less than 20 hp makes sense to me but now we're flirting with power equipment engines and the gallons per day really begins to jump up there.  Ever wonder why Kubota, Deere and the many other small equipment manufactures can import or manufacture thousands and thousands of diesel powered machines per year that have absolutely NO clean air apparatus on them at all and we can't import a few thousand stationary engines?

Building lower speed engines is a beautiful idea but please keep in mind that there are states that are fighting the Tesla distribution model because their legislatures are controlled by fossil fuel people rather than some future oriented sustainable planet entrepreneur.  Automobile dealerships are still dominated by fossil fuels.  Just check their manufacturing schedules.  I'm thinking that less than 1% are directed towards non fossil fuel powered equipment.  Yes I see that this undermines my argument but it illustrates the wants and needs of the power affluent or should I write effluent.

Casey

[mobile_bob]

all this is just so much blah, blah blah to me...  that is that from the so called ruling class, not from those here on our forums

here is what i think, or rather what i truly believe

give us the sub 20hp class CI engine's, but... regulate the crap out of them if you must.

tell us that they must be reported on, as to where they are used, and for what purpose
(of course we are talking chp use only)

limit the run time hour per day if you must, or hours per year

make us fill out and file a report as to

1. location of unit
2. hours of operation during filing period
3. kw/hrs electric produced
4. btu's harvested and put to use
5. method of smoke abatement
6. fuel type(s)
7. fuel consumed (gallons or cu/ft)
and maybe a few dozen other parameters?

yes it would be onerous (read that pain in the arse), however
it would be something many of us could find a way to comply with, rather than just saying "no" you can't import them!

the idea here is to base the operation on btu's recovered and used vs. btu's of fuel consumed! instead of the metric they
are using which does not account for recovered btu's of waste heat.

had the epa tried to do a pilot program, i for one and i suspect many others here and other forums would have gladly met the provisions of the program and worked to develop systems that not only complied but improved on what the minimum standards set out in the program.

that is where innovation comes from,  yes regulate and make rules, then get out of the way and let the little guy (and yes the big boys too) have a go at it to see if they can succeed.... many will fail, some will pass, and a few will excel.

with forums like these and the free exchange of information, my bet is the end result would be something much more useful and cleaner than anyone would expect.

we have all read, thought about, even tried the idea's of scrubbing the exhaust via a variety of effective mean's, leaving the epa with no real complaints with mini chp plants using CI engine's

having been involved on a local level now for 2 years as mayor of my little city, i have had a crash course in just how whacked our governance really is... and i have no reason to believe that state, fed, or world governance is any less mess up, let alone un-elected bureaucracies like the epa.  an agency populated by perhaps well meaning folks that have found that there is much money in controlling other folks. an agency that in my opinion that has a very centrist view of life on this planet.

i am blathering on, just my blah, blah, blah...

bob g

[buickanddeere]

  maybe the EPA will be pushed back into an agency to control pollution instead of being power trippers on an agenda to alter society into an Agenda 21 paradise. 

[mike90045]

Aside from keeping the engine in proper operating order, how do you perform smoke abatement ?  a 5Kw scrubber unit ?

[AdeV]

Aside from keeping the engine in proper operating order, how do you perform smoke abatement ?  a 5Kw scrubber unit ?

Jam a sponge up the tailpipe...? Replace hourly if it's REALLY smoky?

[LowGear]

Yes bob,

Democratic organizations are screwed but the alternatives seem to quickly run a muck as well.  I'm sure that in spite of your common sense approach to life that there are folks working hard against your programs and agenda.  I appreciate your challenges and hard work.

WOW buickanddeere,

You really hood winked me into that Paradise Stolen - Agenda 21 video set.  https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_agenda21_20.htm

But we all know I'm not quite as subtle as most of the rest of you so I linked over to it.  I was almost ready to move except for the fall leaves on the ground which hints way too strongly that it's going to get nasty in a month or two.  Once you Winter out in a civilized climate it's pretty tough to go back - thinks me.

OK, there's a fair burden of Pie in the Sky but we're all adults and it's an enjoyable six minute watch but do have your rubber boots on and your glass cleaner handy.  I spent 12.64 months in Korea as a member of the United States Army - Freedoms Frontier.  The longest three years of my life.  Area 21 looks pretty damn sweet from there.

NOW;  Does anyone have any real idea of how the small internal combustion engine people get to power their tractors, mowers, dozers, generators and the like get away with the importation and / or manufacture of small diesel engines - low speed or high here in the states?  For a couple of thousand bucks I can go down to Costco, Lowes or Home Depot and buy a <10 HP diesel powered generator.  HTF?  or should I write WTF?

Casey

[LowGear]

Hi again,

I watched all five episodes.  It starts to fall apart hard on Episode 4 and Episode 5 demonstrates the art of double counting.  It's really a shame because the first three are really fun.  Oh well; so goes paradise. 

Any word on those diesel generators or lawn tractors?

Casey

[SteveU.]

BobG you miss the current declared world/planet killing "danger" point.
It is far past just soots and particle abatement's for CI's of 'ol late 21st century.
The real (to them) problem is the carbon dioxide emissions that will result form ANY hydrocarbon combustion fueled engine or process. This has become very culture entrenched in our young since the early/mid 1990's. Portland OR Zoo has a walk across concrete enlarging carbon foot print for the kiddys to traipse across to show that they/we US'ingons are the largest foot print problem on the planet, today. Japan's is shown smaller. EU's shown as smaller too. Ooo! Ickie! We Bad!
Bit disingenuous expecting w-i-d-e spread out USA, Canada, Australia and others to have to match the urban dense, rack'em, stack'em, pack'em areas, eh?

Mr Casey,
All of these modern EPA Level IV redesigned compliant small diesels from John Deere, Kubota, Yanmar, Kohler, and others cannot be bought at COSTCO, Home Depot, Harbor Freirght. Up-ass and go look. Nope. You have to pony up the big bucks to buy these from dealers to pay for the redesign, testing and certification costs.
The quietest, cleanest smelling vehicles driving by my rural county road ARE THE NEW compliant diesel engineered yellow school buses. Ain't no bigHydro/BigCNG/Nuke power station fed Grid charging stations out here in the rural for our kids. We supposed to just leave these rural kids behind? Or move them into the rabbit warren ant-hill shitty's for the very best sheeple training?
Also face the reality man that the LeftProgreesive Elites are just as current make-money/retain-wealth bought-in as the RightRegressive Conservatives Elites. Just as much wealth/vestment in the Clintons/Obamas/Gates' and the La-La land Hollywood crowd as the N.Y. banker types. They ALL want your buy-in to their products-spin. And your proxy vote support for their wealth/influence pyramids.
NO DIFFERNCES to the ordinary Joe and Jane.

To these "you-must" folks; Left or Right, ultra-religious (green-spin is a religion too) it is all about social/psychological control for . . . . [fill in your own blank].

Only by making small usable personal use power systems: legally, semi-legally, illicitly, needs-must flat-out "catch me if you can" can you ever truly be free.
And until you do energy use free yourself you will be dependent.

No longer a Sheeple. Any only semi-dependent. Grid goes down like it has six times now since Thanksgiving and then I can fall-forward, one rope pull, flip-switch to Free Independent. Ha! Wife insist on a working hair dryer. And I insist on safe, clean electric lighting.
J-I-T Steve Unruh

[mobile_bob]

i understand the whole co2 debate

as for scrubbing

having been out in my garden this morning and mowing around a rather large wood chip pile
i can't help but recall my thinking of running the cooled exhaust into the center of the woodchip pile
and let it percolate though the chip.... which would trap the particulates, of which being carbon are useful to plants in the  the co2 being in and around my garden my bet is my plants aren't going to complain much.

i think i could grow mushrooms on the pile and they would do just fine, the microbial action would be ongoing right through the winter months as well.

sure as heck would not have any plumes of black smoke or black smoke rings telling tale on my operation.

i think it wouldn't be too hard to prove a carbon neutral operation using such a scheme.

now before anyone asks,  my exhaust heat after the exchanger drop is right at 240F at max loading (down from 640F)
so i can't see any issues with starting my chip pile on fire.

bob g

[mike90045]

Wood chip mulch piles do grow mushrooms  
(yay  pic upload works )

[LowGear]

Diesel in the market place today.

Home Depot:  I'm thinking a couple of these are diesel?

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Outdoors-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-Generators-Standby-Generators/N-5yc1vZbx9s/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-generator?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5

Diesel from Costco:

https://www.costco.com/Generac-5000W-Diesel-Generator-with-Electric-Start.product.100249072.html

Diesel from Lowes:  Look familiar?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-Xd-5000-Running-Watt-Portable-Generator-with-Engine/999960937

Diesel from Kubota:

https://www.ebay.com/p/?iid=282436499499&lpid=82&&&ul_noapp=true&chn=ps

It goes on under the still crushing rules of the Lefty Imperialists.  I wonder why slow speeds are so unpopular and unworthy of market from the big guys?

I agree that the market is a dangerous force regardless of who the stock holders are or their political rhetoric.  As for Mr. Gates; he now has some pretty nice values and programs but back when he was in the market he trampled many competitors or suspected competitors.

Did any of you watch the whole series of five YouTube video.  Wow!  Did it fall off the scale of sanity or what.  Has anyone checked the math?

Are those eatable mushrooms or just a science project?  Warming garden soil for early planting or winter greenhouse production is quite a wrinkle.

Casey