Purchased a Changfa R165 watercooled diesel engine, question about flywheel play

[Henry W]

I would not touch the injector screw. It's best to leave it alone.
As glort suggested, shim the injector pump until the hard knocking almost goes away. If you go too much the engine will start hard.

One thing to keep in mind. Every engine has a critical speed at certain RPM's. You don't want to run the engine very long in that range. The safest thing is to run the engine in the recommended operating speed under the certain recommended load.

I remember that some small engine manufacturers  also recommended using a thicker head gasket at lower speeds.

That is the reason I always try to run engines within recommended operating speeds. I found on most engines I've worked on the sweet spot is 200 RPM's above posted peak torque curve and up.

Here is good info: 10hp air cooled single cylinder Chinese diesels don't like running much over 3000 RPM's. 3600 is too stressful for those engines.

At one time S195 engines came with a set of shims to retime the pump. Someplace in this forum I posted what shim thicknesses will change timing to what extent. It does not take much to retard or advance the timing one degree. I will have to look for it.

The best material to use to make shims is high grade steel or stainless shim stock of thicknesses:

Qty.    Thickness
3@.    .001
2@.    .002
1@     .005
2@.    .010
2@.    .020

This should be enough to get the timing right.

The best way to shim the pump is to use metal shims between thin paper shims. If all paper shims are used there is risk of the timing changing over time or worse yet is warping the injector pump base.

Henry

[Henry W]

Found timing procedures.
Check the link below.
It also talks about critical speed in the topic.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=493.0

Henry

[Jesse McB]

Thank you really much for the advice on the injection timing! Glort i missed out on the bigger diesel someone got it before I could! I'm still always looking for them lol. So I managed to shim it off 4 degrees advanced by using a 1/64" shim made from gasket sheet, and put it in between the originals shims . The engine runs very well on startup, and when loaded with the 1000 watt 12v microwave it don't make any much noise which surprised me abit!

But I have another problem as I thought advancing the injection Would fix, it's  smoking a abit  when loaded.  I haven't ran it in the day, only in the night so I don't know what colour it is. I allowed to to reach running temp.

So here's a summary of the smoking problem

1- smokes more when loaded
2- Diesel smelling  but I think I  smell oil
3- engine has 18.5 hrs, coolant is still clear green
4- definitely not white amoke
5- smokes even  at full speed


I have a few Theories what's going on

I may installed the piston rings backwards, I'm wounding if that's possible
With this engine as the rings seem bi directional.

valve guides have to much clearance

Exhaust pipe restriction, I have a smalll muffler and flex pipe system that I will dismantle and run without to test if it's the culprit.

Valves need adjustment

Injector needs cleaning, I did a lot of  low loading  which may carbonated the injector.




That's what's on my mind for what I may need to look for, but I know there's others things i may need to look for. I guess after ripping apart this engine and reassemble also takes just as much work tuning it to work perfect!

So another question, does everyone's Changfa and Changfa type diesels smoke when running? Is it normal for this rugged design of engines? I understand these are designed types from the old days.

[Henry W]

My S195 direct injected made a little grey smoke when loaded good. I overloaded it many times and that was when it started making black smoke. It never made blue smoke. That could be oil getting past the rings.

I would start by checking valve clearances. If it has a breather check to make sure it's working properly. If those are fine the next thing would be to check injector time. For now, I would get it close to factory specs. So that means putting back the time for now to run at full operating speed. The timing could be too retarded and the engine could be coking up at low speeds. Next is run it near full operating speed with near a full load to get the engine hot enough to burn any oil or fuel out of the combustion chamber, exhaust port, exhaust manifold and muffler.
If it is a indirect injected engine that could be the problem. Direct injected engines have less of a problem with this issue.

The problem is it might need a good sh#/ beating to clean it out and seat the rings.

In lots of generator user manuals it states to operate diesels at 75% or more loaded. This gets the engine hot enough to keep it from coking up.

I attached a document from Caterpillar below this post. Please log in to read it

Found this:
First, let's define what wet stacking is. Wet stacking is a term that originally described a diesel engine dripping a thick, dark substance from its exhaust pipes or, as they're often called, "stacks." The condition is caused by operating the engine at light load for extended periods, sending unburned fuel and soot into the exhaust system. Today, the term refers to an engine that isn't completely burning all the fuel that's delivered to its cylinders. Over a prolonged period, this condition can seriously degrade engine performance.

When a diesel engine runs without load, it develops only enough power to drive its accessories and overcome internal friction. A diesel engine doesn't use spark plugs. It relies on the hot compressed air in the cylinder to vaporize and ignite the fuel. With the air cooler than the design temperature, conditions for combustion are less than ideal. The fuel ignites and burns, but it doesn't burn completely. What remains are vaporized fuel and soot—small, hard particles of unburned carbon. In the exhaust system, fuel vapors condense and mix with soot to form a dark, thick liquid that looks like engine oil. It may ooze from the turbocharger or drip from the exhaust outlets. The appearance of liquid on the exhaust stacks leads to the term "wet stacking."

How can I tell if my generator is Wet Stacking? Your generator is likely operating inefficiently if any, or all of the following conditions exist:

•           Continuous black exhaust smoke from your exhaust pipe

•           Diesel engine dripping a thick, dark substance from its exhaust pipes

•           Soot or hard carbon deposits forming

Negative Impacts of Wet Stacking

Expense - Excessive wet stacking will shorten engine life by many years and before planned replacement.

Pollution - Many urban areas restrict the level of smoke emissions wet stacking produces.

Power - Even before an engine is damaged, deposits will reduce maximum power. A prematurely worn engine will have a lower maximum power than it was designed to develop.

Maintenance - An engine experiencing wet stacking will require considerably more maintenance than an engine that is adequately loaded.

Solutions to Avoid Wet Stacking

The general cure for wet stacking is a few hours of operation at a load of about 75% to 100% of the generator's nameplate rating, raising the exhaust temperature high enough to vaporize the unburned fuel in the exhaust system and blow out the soot. Built-up fuel deposits and carbon can be removed by running the diesel engine at the required operational temperature for several hours if wet stacking has not yet reached the level where carbon buildup can only be removed by a major engine overhaul. But, the exhaust temperature at that load is well above the auto-ignition temperature for diesel fuel, and on rare occasions fuel and soot can ignite within the exhaust system. If a unit has a history of extended operation at low load, or if there's no documentation that it's been exercised recently at adequate load, it's important to have a professional generator maintenance expert manage the load testing procedure.

This is why I try to stay within the load and speed requirements of the manufacturers recommendations. They spend millions on R&D. They should know a little about operation and care.

This is what's so fun about diesel generators. You might need two or three different sizes so you can match your load requirements.

A question, did you mess with the injector pressure? It's best not to mess with it. If you did the injector pressure needs to be calibrated and than the injector pump time needs to be done again.

It's possible to install rings incorrectly. But at times we can second guess ourselves also.

Let us know how it goes.

Henry

[glort]

First thing with the smoking is to see if you can even see it during the day.
I have run Diesels on Veg oil for many years and you always see smoke in the headlights behind you but can never see it during the day. Pretty much everyone I have spoken to has seen the same thing and these engines are Running years, are running hard and a factory built so nothing wrong with them.  Diesel and Oil is a fuel that burns with a lot of particles even completely combusted which is why I think it's able to be seen agains specific light but not in the day.

If you can't see this smoke at night, I wouldn't be worrying a bit.

Other thing is you say it's only been run 18 Hours.  As long as it's not dribbling out the exhaust, run the thing till 60 hours or so and then see what happens. If nothings changed, good to keep going. If it's got better because the rings have bedded in, better still.
These motors are Tught, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd expect the thing to use a bit of oil till it does have more hours but they will use oil anyway.

You were lugging the thing a bit at one stage so that might take a bit of clearing as well.  Try the old water spray trick down the inlet while it's running and see how it is after a litre or so.
If the rings are not good you may see some water in the oil if you pour it in at a rate just above where the engine starts to bog and do that for a bit. If no water you are fine, If you do get some, might simply be the rings need more bedding in.

Long as it's running right and not using stupid amounts of oil, I wouldn't worry about it.  I'd expect to see that smoke at night myself because every Diesel Vehicle I have had or heard about ( sans DPF ) does it.

[Jesse McB]

It's been forever since I been online,  and hope it's ok to revive this thread, I'm using the changfa as a prime power source as a backup when the main kubota Gen is down, at 600 hrs in it's running great 24/7, I'm kinda curious about a few things. It was -3C this morning and had it offline to chill for a few hours to cold start test, it fired right up without any heat, kinda strange as no glow plugs to assist. I'm running a 645 watt load 24/7,  it sips about 9L daily @ 375ml hr, is that adequate? I seem pleased.  I'm using a non efficient mini alternator, 430 watt AC continuous with a 12V Inverter, efficiency loss at %50 I believe total 645Watts.

[veggie]

Jesse,

Great that the unit is in use and making power.
I suspect anything less than -5C and you would have trouble starting it.
Especially since it's an Indirect Injection engine.
24/7 operation is impressive. Keep an eye on your oil level.
Change it often. At 24/7 you reach a 100 hr change interval in only 4 days.

I am currently building a CHP system based on the same engine.
By adding a large external oil filter I was able to add almost 1 more litre to the oil capacity.
This took some assistance from a machinist friend who helped me tap into the pressurized oil system.
I will take some pictures an post them soon.

Any new videos of of the little red beast in 24/7 action ?

[Jesse McB]

I'll be sure to post a new video today while it's still daylight. I will explain my system. It's still in the trail stages as I have many flaws to fix, I'm really picky on this setup. I now keep the radiator isolated away from the engine I don't trust the vibrations. She still running non stop since my last post about 75 hours ago without any hickups. I'm watching the oil consumption it's really not burning much at all after 48hr is when I notice about 1/8 inch drop on the oil dipstick. On the 450 hr mark i removed the side covers and inspected the gear bay and crank case and very clean no metallic particles none whatsoever, still gave her an intense internal flushing, I used mixed gas to clean the inside, waited hours before reassembly, was dry but oiled from the 2stroke to keep from drying completely. Anyone think it's ok to clean it with mixed gas every 5 hundred hours I'd like an opinion if it's ok for this? It seems good no harm to anything, IP pump doesn't seem affected, doesn't affect the internal red paint.
I'm not using full power only about 600 Watts so it shouldn't burn much oil I assume. For those of you that installed an external oil filter I highly envy you all! The 3hp R165 model has no forced oil pump, uses centrifugal force oiling the mains, splash for the upper rod, and a barbaric worm drive pump on the cam end for the rockers. I'm thinking adding an electric drive oil pump just for passing threw an filter but perhaps it'll consume to much power? I'll still may give it a go changing oil every 100 hrs sucks. With a filter you'll get up to 200hr intervals. Recently for an added security feature, if the engine was to over heat it will deactivate the fuel solenoid switch shitting her down fairly y
Quickly. I'll explain in the next video I'll post today. Fortunately there is a lot
More to the system id like to discuss on and maybe get some input on some ideas, so this thread may get a little longer haha. 

[mobile_bob]

i have used ATF as a crankcase cleaner in larger diesel engines for a very long time
for instance an old 6.9 liter ford/ih where i would add 1 qt of atf to the crankcase and run the engine for 5 minutes or so with no load
atf is pretty good at cleaning thing up.

for a small diesel like these changfa types maybe 8 oz of atf
then run the engine with no load for 5 minutes or so, and then drain the crankcase, i think you will find the crankcase will be pretty clean

don't worry about a small amount of atf damaging the gear train, i have seen a few different high hp semi's using atf in fuller transmissions
and the gears did not show accelerated wear, and that was full time under load operation.. at overhaul time, the gear sets generally were all reused
and the insides were sparkling clean.

as for the rod insert brg, or main bushings, i don't think a slight reduction in viscosity is going to cause a problem at all.

much easier than having to get inside and scrub everything down, and rinse out, and probably get into places you can't otherwise.

fwiw

bob g

[Jesse McB]

It's still running non- stop since my last post Haha! I do oil changes every 4 days.  I'll have to post a pic for what I got for parts, it was such a great deal I couldn't pass lol! 10 piston rings sets, 6 plungers, 6 nozzles, 2 valve kits, and a 5 pack of rod bearings. I hear parts are hard to come by,  so far after 4 years my source haven't let me down!  My apologies I haven't posted any vids I will post a YouTube link soon as I will try to upload a few. A few add ons I made, I fabricated a fuel shutoff solenoid to the block temp gauge it shuts down the engine quick when temps read over 98C, also I got very fed up whenever it ran outta fuel I have to bleed the system, make a big mess and deal with a rough running engine for a few hours till air pockets clear up. I fabricated a float system in a 20L fuel tank, it deactivates  the fuel solenoid and shuts down the system. It runs roughly 9L per 24 hrs, average 600 Watts.  

[veggie]

Hey JesseMcB,

Where are you getting parts?
I may need some R175 items

[Jesse McB]

Veggie, My source website is called yoycart.com, they have a different way of selling things but it works! First make
An account, then  search for your parts, add to shopping cart, shipping prices  is estimated with the weight of the product, example a head gasket for my R165 weights 32grams exact., they calculate shipping with weight,  youPay with credit card, they will ahead photos of the product before they ship to you if you ask. so far I purchased over $500 in parts, 8 orders over the last 4 years and never had a problem. If you have a hard time finding what you need let me know and I can find the parts on site, send you the parts  numbers, sometimes the sites search engine shows to much products. They have every part needed for all the china diesel engines from the smallest air cooled to the large water cooled series.  Prices are incredible I got 10 piston ring sets. 6 plungers, 6 nozzles, 2 valve kits, 12 head gaskets for my R165 all for $150 Canadian, shipping is EMS express takes average 10 days.

[Jesse McB]

Also check out eBay a seller is selling all parts for the water cooled types but they are expensive, except for cylinder sleeves they are around $45 us shipping included, I purchased one before Christmas for the r165 for a future rebuild. It's at the point now I have enough parts I don't feel like I'm on the moon with the engine haha!

[veggie]

Thanks,
Yes, the prices are good.
I can get a cylinder sleeve for an R175 for $11.58

[Tom Reed]

Thanks,
Yes, the prices are good.
I can get a cylinder sleeve for an R175 for $11.58

Thanks for that link. There is a nm195 that is running a hammer mill here and it is good to know where to find parts. How long does shipping usually take?