Water Injection for a Listeroid

[Dail R H]

   I think he's secretly modifing it so it will omly work on the noisy rattling changfas.
   Hey adm., where's the running for cover smiley??

[Capt Fred]

"Other Guy" has been due for a de-carbon job for quite some time. Starting his engine was becoming more difficult so tried using a steamer -  one of those hand-vac sized steamer that uses distilled H2O to clean stuff.  Idea is don't have to worry about liquid water expansion as it's already steam.

Anyway, seems to have worked, expelled some carbon and the engine starts easier.

Will try this instead of the spraybottle with H20/Kerro mix this week.

Cheers, Fred

[oiler]

Everyone seems to have problems with cleaning the exhaust heat exchangers.
Why not have something like in the quick drawing I made below?
Just detach the end cover, clean with a gun-barrel brush, give it a quick run to get the loosened stuff out, replace cover

Or am I missing the point?
dubbleUJay

My setup is very similar to this.
Cleaning is easy,but messy, as the engine is running while i clean from the outer end.

Oiler

[dubbleUJay]

I was under the impression that one had to almost take the thing out, disassemble, clean and put back!
Clearly not the case. Then, me also, waiting for Bob's "undercover project" to be shown
I just hope this didn't start last year April 1st and its carrying through to the next year same date!

What detergent does the diesel mach's use to clean/loosen/dissolve the stuff with before working on an engine? (They do don't they )
I've used "oven-cleaner" which took it off before, should then just be a matter of rinsing it out, but you will still have the mess!
Reversing the exhaust flow maybe, but there will come a time to clean it anyway, might just prolong the time frame between cleaning.

I've got an idea, would anyone like to predict what Bob's exchanger would be like in design, maybe we could give a prize for the closest guess when he unveils it?
If it's a April joke and he's feeling guilty about it, this might give him some ideas to make one quickly in the lab

$H!T, I'm gonna get clobbered for this, but the temptation was just to big! 

[vdubnut62]

I still think that a catalytic converter of some sort should be placed just before or integrated into the heat exchanger.
The reaction would both raise the exhaust temperature and keep the heat exchanger much cleaner, leaving behind
little or no "goo" created by incomplete combustion. Just a thought.
Ron

[Crofter]

Would the exhaust temperature be high enough to light off the cat in a listeroid? I have to punch my 1.9 vw really long and hard to make it light off.

[vdubnut62]

Well, has anybody actually put a pyrometer on a lister type? The average light off of a good catalyst is from 400 to 600 degrees F. which
is not out of reason at all for a naturally aspirated diesel. My dodge is close to that at idle. Lead, Phosphorous, and silicone will kill a cat,
so WMO is definitely out. Maybe vegoil would be ok. The upper limit is around 1800 degrees that is when the aluminum oxide starts to break down.
Like I said, just a thought, I'm not trying to sell anything.
Ron

[mobile_bob]

i don't know about a lister, but a changfa applied as i plan to run mine
should have no issues lighting and maintaining a cat con.

my exhaust is above 640 degree's F as measured at the pipe, and likely higher within the exhaust gas
flow, and yes that is my primary interest in useing a cat, that is improving the heat quality before the
heat exchanger.

my plan is more toward the hybrid application, basically run the TCU (uhmmmm engine) flat out
at peak load for best efficiency, power all scheduled loads and charge batteries for down time use
with inverters for low consumption full time loads.

we gotta start to explore the use of cat converters around here, may as well be the leaders of the pack
rather than the ones late to the party, or the also rans down the road.

as for a lister, not sure it will get hot enough, without running it at full load and probably maintaining it there.

even then we got to work on a particulate filter to fit between the exhaust port and the cat con, so that the carbon
doesn't end up collecting and plugging the unit.

thats my next project actually, and am working on a design that might work at a sufficient level to keep the cat from
clogging.

bob g

[vdubnut62]

Bob, the only particulate filter that dodge used on my truck looked like a standard piece of screen wire, I'm sure that it was made of
some exotic material to take the heat though. What did they have in mind, burn the carbon?
Also, exhaust heat, in a diesel, is not just a function of RPM, but also of load and fuel to air ratio. Bob has it right, as usual, your engine has to
be running at rated power.
Ron

[mobile_bob]

the particulate filter i am thinking of making will be basically a stainless mesh that is coated possibly with a reactant agent
but i am not sure of that yet, however

as it clogs there will be a pressure sensor in the exhaust stream that will tell a microcontroller to initiate a pulse of propane into the exhaust stream to provide an afterburn to clear the carbon,

it could be said that the propane is lost fuel, but it adds btu's to the exhaust of which most will be recovered by the heat exchanger
anyway.

i figure if i can trap the majority of the particulate and burn it periodically to clear/clean the filter then the cat con has a fighting chance
of keeping up with what is left without clogging it prematurely.

don't figure the cat is of much use if it plugs up in just a few hours of operation,

i am also thinking that i will use an exhaust bypass to bypass the cat con until the system comes up to temperature and only
bring it online once things are hot enough and clean enough for it to operate and live a reasonable lifespan.

bob g

[mobile_bob]

yes Jens i got your email, sorry i forgot to respond 

just had gotten back from the spine specialist and was dead beat
and forgot to get back to you.

you will be happy i am working on the plans, and the writeup
and it looks like if the next testing done by the specialist turns out to prove him right
i will be off work and not doing anything physical for 3wks and very light duty for the remainder
of 4 months,,

that will provide me with lots of time to finish things like the heat exchanger plans

i still need to work out the formula for sizing and also have to determine other considerations that
are based on operating parameters of the end user.

i know the prototype works exceptionally well on the 195 changfa from about 75% to full load
what i need to retest for is low load and part load operation, to determine efficiency and more importantly
the self cleaning function.

the one thing i want to make sure of is the efficacy of the unit running at ~33% load, such as on a 6/1
delivering 1 kwatt of power.

i think it will be fine, but i don't want a bunch of pissed off folks that have issues with the design running at very low
loads if the unit has issues doing its thing there.

it would be a no brainer once i convince more folks to buy into the hybrid operation of inverter genset where you can run
the engine at near peak load and peak efficiency,, the heat exchanger design criteria is much easier to calculate than at
low or part load.

bob g