Fuel Storage - Winter is coming

[Henry W]

I have a 55 gallon drum of off road diesel that I treated three years ago and it is still fine. But I do know it is not ultra low sulfur diesel. I will start running a 200 to one mixture of 2 stroke oil along with it to help lubricity. I check for water with Mr. Funnel. www.mrfunnel.com

Henry

[glort]

Out of interest, what made you decide on 200:1 on the 2 stroke as against any other ratio?

[Henry W]

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=3190.0

I would think more 2-stroke oil can be used, like 150 or 100 to 1. A good question is why use more if it is not needed?
Two stroke TC-W3 oil has been going up in price for the past few years. I feel 200 is a good place to start. The test results shows it does a pretty good job.

Henry

[vdubnut62]

For some reason, my local Sam's club can't sell TCW-3!  So.. I have 3- six gallon cases out in the barn, for about $35 a case, to blend with my diesel. Everything that I have that burns Diesel is 1997 vintage or much older, so it was not designed for this modern "dry" diesel.
Ron.

[Henry W]

WOW!!! what a deal. I need to check out Sams club in my area.

Henry

[LowGear]

gallons or quarts?

Casey

[vdubnut62]

My cases consist of 6 one gallon jugs.
Ron

[glort]

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=3190.0

I would think more 2-stroke oil can be used, like 150 or 100 to 1. A good question is why use more if it is not needed?
Two stroke TC-W3 oil has been going up in price for the past few years. I feel 200 is a good place to start. The test results shows it does a pretty good job.

Henry

Reading the test it seems 200:1 Was a figure they basically pulled out of the air.  The results were OK but far short of what the Biodiesel did. The bio was run at 50:1 however so if the 2-Stroke was used at that rate the results may have well been different.

I also note that the " Ideal" score on this test was a HFRR of under 520.  The fuel they started with was rated at 636 and said to be typical of ULSD.
At 200:1, the 2 stroke returned a score of a HFRR of 474 which to me is not that much better than what the base line standard is meant to be.
Certainly its an improvement, but it would seem its not actually making the fuel all that much better than what it's supposed to be ( although different to what it actually is) anyway.

I guess it's a toss up. presumably people would be doing this to extend the life of their fuel systems. The question is how much do you invest and what sort of a benefit is it going to give you? It would seem to me that one may spend the value of a new IP and injectors over the time the pump would last on it's own anyway making the saving in real terms null and void. The pump may last say 50K miles without additives but if you get 100K out of it and have spent the price of a new pump on additives anyway, then there is no saving.  One thing I did wonder in this test is how these things would go when used at higher ratios.

I saw a couple there at 1000:1. It's hard  to imagine anything being terribly effective at that ratio but if one brought them down to say 100:1, they could be great. Wether anyone could afford to do that with the price of some of them though is an entirely different matter!!

On the 3rd hand, If I was going to do this, I think I'd be going for the max benefit and trading the cost off against not having the inconvenience and having to find a lump sum cost for major repairs.
In this case I'd wonder about the 2T at that ratio and would be going to at least 100:1 which is where the oil is designed to operate. One would know that the wear should be minimal  and in a lot of engines this could be the only lube source and they would be OK. IT would seem that at 100:1 the wear index would also be greatly improved and the effect be significant enough to give a noticeably improved pump life over a marginal or insignificant one.

With cost being a concern, I think the real winners are Bio and WVO.  Here there is a mandated MINIMUM 2% Bio added to all Diesel fuel due to the havoc the introduction of ULSD caused. Usually being slightly cheaper than Diesel anyway, Biodiesel is a real winner in this regard for adding it for lube value. 
Form a cost POV, a person could easily make their own Bio and save money on fuel. All you need is an open top drum, a gas ring and a pump. You do not need to go to all the mucking around and overkill many bio makers do when you would be doing very limited runs.

Make up a drum of bio for which would would probably get around 30-35 gallons somewhere near 25-30C a gallon and just throw a gallon in your tank every fillup and you would be way ahead of the curve on the lube value. The other alternative if you can't buy B100 at the pump would be just to find someone making bio and get it off them. would not cost you anymore than the same amount of regular Dino anyway.
For less effort still, You could simply get some wvo and dry and filter it properly and add a gallon of that.

The other potential is NEW veg oil. I know in the UK it's cheaper than diesel. Here its more expensive but the gap is closing fast.  Check out the cost of New veg where you are. It may well be cheaper than 2T and I would bet on the lube value scale a lot better running that at 50:1 than 2T at 200:1.
You can buy that in the 20L box or whatever you have there at the big box stores and just throw it in with no prep at all.

[Henry W]

Not the best but TC-W3 is available everywhere. I also believe that 100 to 1 should be better. The only way to know is to have it tested. Bio is not available in my area and I have no interest getting involved with it at this time. If I need to adjust to times and run a different fuel than I will be looking at propane.

Henry

[mike90045]

The drawback with bio-diesel, is it dissolves everything.  5% just takes a little longer.   My new Hatz, with it's self-priming system and dual fuel filters and return lines and vent lines and spare lines because there was another port, has 3 different sizes of fuel lines, and about 7 lines.  What a pain to try to replace them to make it BD safe.

[Henry W]

It has been not long ago when modern engine manufactures allow a percent of bio-diesel to be ran. Some say 5% some 10% and some 20%. Anyone that runs bio in a modern diesel, please be careful and follow the manufactures directions on running bio. Injector pumps on new modern engines are not cheap.

Henry

[glort]

Anyone that runs bio in a modern diesel, please be careful and follow the manufactures directions on running bio. Injector pumps on new modern engines are not cheap.

I have yet to hear of Bio adversely affecting a modern ( say 5-10 Yo) IP.
Do you have any information on these pumps being damaged by Bio?
Certainly in the last 5 years all manufacturers have used Bio safe fuel lines as standard.

I'm not pushing the feelgood green ra ra ra Bio bandwagon but there are a HUGE amount of misconceptions about bio and veg even amongst the dedicated advocates.

Manufacturers take, as with most everything else, a very overly protective and conservative approach to Bio.
I'm pretty sure you aren't going to find too many ( maybe only Mercedes) that would have anything in their "directions" about 2T other than to say they don't reccomend/ allow it. 


None of them would " allow" bio over 5-15% to be used however there are thousands of people around the world that have been running 100% for many years without problem. As for Veg oil, well every manufacturer will effectively tell you that your engine won't make it out of your street if you put that stuff in.
Wonder how many million miles have been traveled on it so far?
I'm coming up to 200K myself.

Manufacturers recommendations are more about arse covering and legalities than any actual indication of what is actually good or bad for their engines.

[Henry W]

Here you go.

This is some of many.

Henry

http://www.kubotaengine.com/support/fuel-and-motor-oil/biodiesel-statement

http://www.kubotaengine.com/assets/documents/KEI-162.pdf

http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/caterpillar%202010.pdf

http://www.enviroharvest.ca/downside_biodiesel.htm

[artificer]

Manufacturers take, as with most everything else, a very overly protective and conservative approach to Bio.
I'm pretty sure you aren't going to find too many ( maybe only Mercedes) that would have anything in their "directions" about 2T other than to say they don't reccomend/ allow it. 


None of them would " allow" bio over 5-15% to be used however there are thousands of people around the world that have been running 100% for many years without problem. As for Veg oil, well every manufacturer will effectively tell you that your engine won't make it out of your street if you put that stuff in.
Wonder how many million miles have been traveled on it so far?
I'm coming up to 200K myself.

Manufacturers recommendations are more about arse covering and legalities than any actual indication of what is actually good or bad for their engines.

One of the exceptions to this is a modern vehicle with a diesel particulate filter.  Since they use a regen mode to clean it, and bio/dino diesel have different combustion properties, there are problems.  Mostly it ends up being fuel diluting the crankcase oil because of cylinder washdown of the biodiesel.   I haven't heard if they've fixed the problem yet, or just tell you to not use over 5% bio.

Michael