Question about a Leece Neville 110-555j

[cohippy]

So i need some temporary power at my new property, i have a 24kw diesel generator, but have no desire/need to move that 1800+lb thing out there till im ready to build.

my question about the 110-555j from http://www.saase.us/final_selection_pages/motorola_110_555p.php is this will this be sufficient to charge a 430Ah battery bank? ill be direct coupling it to a 11.5hp electric start kawasaki fe350 engine with a lovejoy coupler. what would my output be at 3600rpm? what about at 1500rpm?

i have some fears in doing this being that i made a 12vdc generator with a 5hp engine and a 10si alt and burnt up the rectifiers on a monthly basis. will this happen again? will i need to buy spare rectifiers and a spare regulator?

many thanks!!

[vwbeamer]

Do you already have inverter? Reason I ask is BOB has written a great paper on converting that ALT to 24 volts.

The advantage is fuel efficiency and course the cabling can be a lot smaller.

Just an idea.

[Ronmar]

Good question, what voltage batterybank are you operating.  As to charging a large bank with a alternator, IMO, you really need a programmable/adjustable charge controller to limit the alternators output to a safe long term level...  With a dumb automotive  voltage regulator, it sees the black hole that is your monster battery bank in a discharged state, and will drive the alternator at full output till the hole is full or it breaks it's back.

[Mad_Labs]

I am using about the same size engine and alternator with a 1200aH bank. It charges it nicely but the fuel efficiency sucks. Yours would be even worse. Got a smaller engine? And as mentioned above, the stock controllers don't work well, I made my own controller that protects the alt and battery bank from overcharging.

Jonathan

[cohippy]

its 12 volt and i already have the inverter i will only have a 250 watt load on average so i figure running the 12v gen for about 4 hours a day would suffice. this is a short term setup like about 4-5 months

[Ronmar]

4 hours is a long time to run an alt at maximum output, and to do that every day, well...  Look at what it was designed to do.  Recharge a small starting battery after it has started an engine, then maintain that charge while powering the other loads on a vehicle.  headlights, wipers, efi, heating blower, electric fan stereo and fuel pump...  It may be a 160A alternator, but all those loads add up to a fraction of that, with only short duration loads that approach the alts capacity.  A  430AH battery could draw all that alt could produce for quite a while if down on charge.  You say you killed rectifiers on 10SI's, well if trying to charge that large a bank, that is probably why.  Will this alternator last longer? well it probably will, but that large a bank will be hard on it.    

A good charge controller will cost more than the alternator, but with the alternator output held within safe limits, they both should last for a very long time.  The charge controller will also extend the life of your batteries by controlling their charge levels better.

That engine is also a little overkill for 160A max.  Rule of thumb is I think 30A per HP for sustainable 12V alternator ops, so a 5-6HP engine would work well at better efficiency.  Not sure about output VS RPM, I am sure someone can chime in with a curve for it...

[mobile_bob]

i personally would recommend limiting the 555 to about 120-130amps and run it no slower than 3000 and preferably 3500rpm as a minimum

it is fair to note that the application that these alternators were made to provide power for have between 300-400amp hour battery banks already, and the accessory loads on modern trucks keep these units really humping along with continuous loads of over 100amps being not that unusual.

they are far better than any 10si ever could be or made to be, however they are a bit more expensive and larger physically too.

the 10 si, was probably designed to provide maybe 30amps continuous, to cover accessory loads, asking it to provide for recharging a 400amp hour battery is going to make a lot of heat.

i would have to recheck my notes or rerun the test, but iirc the 555 can pretty much run forever delivering 120 to 130amps, still be thermally stable at well under the design rating of the unit.  iirc the alternator will stabilize at about 180 degree's F in the diodes and well under that in the stator.

it may also be that it can run stable at higher outputs, i just have never tested at that level.

with the balmar and an alternator temp sensor, you won't have to worry about it anyway, if the alternator exceeds 220 degree's F it is derated to half power till it cools down anyway. then you can reprogram to set the amperage down a bit and retest to see if it goes into derate again. keep doing the testing until such time you get the unit to max output without going into derate and you will have it matched to your application and have it operating under its max temp rating, which will provide better and longer life and max charge power.

bob g

[cohippy]

Ronmar the Kawasaki engine I have is one i bought about a year ago and have never used. Paid $600 for it, finally have something i can use it on.

Mobile Bob do i really need a external regulator? i was looking at the Sterling ProReg-D but do I really need it? I was planning on measuring voltage and if need be add maybe 3/4 gallon fuel to the gen and start her up.....this in the morning and again before evening time.

If I manage to get the xtra $$ ($200) for the ProReg-D wont I again have to spend even more to convet the internals if ther 555 to positive? think i remember reading that somewhere. is that something I can do? Ive never pulled a 555 apart

thanks

[Ronmar]

Well with that big of an engine you should be able to run two alternators...

[mobile_bob]

the output of the 555 is much like any leece neville, in that the posts are isolated
isolated ground and of course positive posts
that way it can be used for negative or positive ground

however i am not sure why you would want to go with anything other than a negative ground.

ebay seller has a sterling for around 100 bucks, it will do about everything you would need to do.

i don't like using the oem regulator, because you cannot alter its operating parameters, it will quickly taper back the charge rate, which makes for a long run time to recharge a battery. the oem regulator also does not have external voltage sense capability, which is something you want with any performance battery charging scheme.

the oem also has no capability of monitoring battery temperature, so you cannot do true temp compensated charging.

the oem regulator is fine to keep on hand as a back up, but i would use a 3 step programmable regulator for any serious battery charging scheme, the fuel savings will very quickly pay for the regulator.

here is a basic sterling unit, i think it come with the temp sensor, but check for sure with the seller, for 83 bucks and free shipping, not a bad price for what it can do.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sterling-Power-ProReg-B-12-Volt-Advanced-Alternator-Regulator-/190742965092?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c692aab64&vxp=mtr

bob g

[SteveU.]

Hrrump. Since this 10SI "thing" has reared it's head again. Back in the day ( early1980's) people set up companies to commercially offer small case retofit high amp alternators. They did indeed thermal and output test out all of then readily available small case units for modification. For the small case they went the earlier Delco 10 DN's to have the in the whole rear case press in large copper can negative diodes and the big aluminum frame heat sinked positive diodes. This was because 10 SI button diode rectifier with their minimal heat sinking ALWAYS overheated the diodes fall out and would fail. There was no space to instal bigger canned diodes or heat sinks. The 10 DN (NOT SI's) was used for the 105 amp continuous applications. They insisted on a minimum 6,000 RPM using a specially designed METAL fan. On the next larger case size for applications needing 130-160 amp contiously they completely skipped all of the Delcos and went with the 6 1/2" Ford large case units with special all copper plate heat sinks and again special press in large copper can diodes. In all cases they used off board HD proprietary voltage regulators  and went back to remote mounting to keep them away from the alternator and engines heats.
The original companies to get and hold the commercial retrofit market was LESTEC. They later were bought out and renamed PHOENIX GOLD.
Only really good things about the 10 SI's unit were they were so widely used for so long that they are cheap and had easier external wiring. 10 SI's are and have always been at best only 1000 watt units anyway you cut it. 12, 15, 17 SI's were/are much better on OEM installs. The later dual internal fan units from all of the manufactures are a quantum level better yet for cooling.

Yes get all of the electronics off board some place cool any time you on on one of there mobile alternators now used on a stationary!

Regards
Steve Unruh

[Mad_Labs]

Bob,

I'm curious because you mention 3 step charging, do you really float charge with an engine running? My home made controller only does bulk and absorption.

Jonathan

[cohippy]

REALLY GOOD QUESTION! sounds like a huge inefficiancy

Bob,

I'm curious because you mention 3 step charging, do you really float charge with an engine running? My home made controller only does bulk and absorption.

Jonathan

[mobile_bob]

i don't use them to float, but we have to remember two things

balmar's 3 step was made for the marine industry, where the propulsion engine is running to drive the boat, so why not float batteries while the engine is running anyway, and

most of these controller also have an equalization function, either switched or programmed, so instead of looking at the controller as a 3 step (bulk, absorb, float) i refer to their use as a 3 step (bulk, absorb, equalize) all in one package.

no i would not float batteries with an engine unless the engine is running to do other service already.

my trigen unit, the engine drives an st head, an AC compressor for refrigeration, twin 555 alternators, so there will be times that the engine is running providing power for other uses, and if the batteries are fully charged, then yes the controller will go into float mode.  no reason not to under those conditions, and an argument to be made to do so under those other conditions.

bob g

[cohippy]

so being said my 11.5hp engine is to big for this job, has got me thinking of using a belt drive system instead of a direct couple. I am thinking of a 1:2 or so drive ratio using a 2 belt pully. i found a 5.45" pully https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-2BK57-E&catname=powerTrans which when using type b belts will give me 5.10" problem im finding is finding type b pulley for the 555 alt. any ideas?

i think this would help with my fuel efficiency as i could throttle down the engine further. I would not be using a belt tensioner as i want to use a pad mount alt so to tighten the belts all i should have to do is have elongated mounting holes so i can adjust belt tension.

whats your thoughts about this idea?

Thanks