New member Intro

[deckofficer]

Hi all,

Name is Bob and I'm in Northern California. I have designed and built off grid power for remote homesites, have (2) electric vehicles that I've built and one "store" bought EV. I'm retired Merchant Marine and a pleasure sailor and that is the reason I have joined this forum. My next sailboat I plan to refit with hybrid diesel/electric propulsion and a fully electric galley, all the way down to a 1500 watt BBQ on the railing. My dinghy also will be electric, plus I have an electric kayak that I have set up with LiFePO4 cells for long range and low weight.

What I want on my cruising sailboat is no gasoline or propane, just a combination house/propulsion bank of LiFePO4 cells at 48 volts. Since all AC loads will be handled by a 48 volt inverter, I want to ditch the diesel AC gen-set that has to run at a fixed rpm for frequency, for a lighter and more efficient diesel DC gen-set for battery charging. With the cost of these units from Polar DC Marine running $15K for just 10kw, I figure I'll roll my own. So, I have a spare Etek motor and hoping the expertise of this forum will help me use that motor as a DC generator, being powered by a cheap China built 10 hp air cooled diesel that is sold new on ebay for $620. If someone can point me to a thread that might have already covered this, that would be great, if not, that is why these forums have a search function.

[mobile_bob]

welcome to the forum, hope you find this place helpful and i am sure you will get
lots of help from the various members that frequent this place.

now a couple of questions

how much power do you need from a dc genset?  in kwatts, and in kw/hrs?

peak and average would be useful too.

bob g

[deckofficer]

Bob,

The heaviest duty cycle would be sailing through the doldrums at 10N to 10S, and for that I would like to produce 8kw cont. for propulsion with the electric drives. For being on the hook in some anchorage, solar panels should do the trick if I'm not needing AC. If running AC, then about a 2 hour run time every other day.

[LowGear]

Wow Deckfofficer,

I wish I knew something about electric boats so we could be friends.  Neat tools. 

It does seem just a bit wrong to put some cheapski noise maker on a sailboat.

Casey

[deckofficer]

Casey,

It is a weight thing. If you want to keep sailing performance in a catamaran, you can't load it up with much weight. I plan to run 800+ watts of solar panels, so shouldn't have to shatter the silence of a pristine anchorage. 2200 rpm is a good rpm for not too much noise (75db a 7 meters) yet decent power out (11~13kw) in a sub 175 lb package. I wonder why I haven't seen the Lombardini diesel mentioned on this site?

Looks like a decent air cool diesel 23 hp @ 3600 for 78 kg (172 lbs)

http://www.powertechengines.com/LomData/12LD477_GB.pdf

http://www.powertechengines.com/Lombardini.html

At a rating of 200 amps cont, 400 amp peak, would this brushed PM motor be a good candidate as a DC generator for the above air cooled diesel?

http://www.cloudelectric.com/product-p/mo-me1003.htm

I figure at 2200 rpm would produce 55.6 volts for charging a lithium 48 volt bank
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-129399866319704/ME1003drawing.pdf

[Frank S]

You mentioned catamaran so I'm going to talk a leap off the yard arm and assume that you are not talking about a large trampoline deck hoby-cat but one with a solid cabin maybe something with a 40ft mast?? say 300 sq ft main and a 200sqft spiniker maybe a 75 ft storm jib just trying to get a feeling for the size of the craft
That being said now I will toss out a wild idea and I mean wild instead of a single 8Kw generator how about mounting a pair of smaller Robin diesels in each pontoon then construct a hybrid gen/ motor with  a disconnect able  marine shaft going down to a collapsible prop that way providing you had enough battery bank you could motor in silent when becalmed but had sunshine to power the solar extending the range of the batteries
The diesels could either run the generators & the props or just the generators . since the props would be able to slim to a spear point and just flap ifreely in the currents in front of the rudders they would not constitute much drag You would have  a balanced weight distribution plus a redundant motoring system
going even further off the starboard side gang plank you could crows nest the top of the mast with a VAWT that had retractable wing blades similar to the movie boat in water world, about 300to400 watt would be about all you could get probably, but it could run even at night while you were sleeping and not under sail or just having a go at some fishing. 800 watts of PV is probably only going to net you around 400 watts anyway so you would need twice the panel area
just a couple to thoughts   

[deckofficer]

Frank,

You have a lot of good ideas. The last vessel I served on was 32,000 ton displacement and had (6) 5,000 hp electric azipods, and I became a big fan of the maneuvering ability of electric motor propulsion. Makes a big difference when you have the torque of an electric motor at a speed an ICE couldn't even idle at, let alone have enough torque to swing a prop at a slow speed. For pleasure sailing I'm a single hander and look forward to the precision of docking with electric propulsion.

The cat is a PDQ 36 but not the LRC model that has small 19 hp diesels aft in each hull but instead use a pair of 9.9 hp high thrust outboard gas engines. This will be replaced by the German built Torqeedo Cruise 4.0, 4kw electric motors. The battery bank I'm assembling now, consisting of (16) 200 a/hr Winston LiFePO4 cells for a 48 volt bank , 10.3 kw/hr. This would propel the cat for 25 nm at about 5 kt. The Torqeedos mount in place of the 9.9 hp gas outboards in a ama hull well that provides powered tilt out of the water when under sail.

A pair of these................


Is what will be replaced by a pair of Torqeedos...........


The piece of equipment I'm working on now, that has prompted me to join this forum, is a diesel powered DC gen-set for battery charging should I need to motor without sail longer than 25 nm. Polar DC Marine has what I want, but they are asking way too much for it.

[SteveU.]

Hi Bob/deckofficer
I read both your very excellent Lambardini diesel links and your posted up Polar DC Marine site with even more interest.
In answer to why you hear none here talking about these diesels is for two reasons:
They are distinctively loud beyond what the numbers are telling you. Road side work light and event rigs you can tell from a distance the Lambardini powered above all others even other manufacturers air cooled. Water cooled (QUETED!) I have to underdood peek to see what is bring used.
They are supremely fuel efficient for thier size and power. The price of that sophistication is you must use a very good spec grade fuel. Users say these HATE any substandard fuels especially any with water in it.  Read here and most are looking for very wide fuel fexabilty useage. These ARE the lightest deisels in their power and the walk behind tractor people and portable construction users love them for those application.
I listened to one of the sweet and simple 5hp? air cooled Briggs and Sratton outboards on the market for a while pining away for something for 4 stroke lake restricted usage. Compared to a watercooled Honda/Evenrude/ Yamaha/Suzuki like you pictured  -  well the wife, and other puddle lakers would have killed me.
You also talk about quiet sail and electric usage. Go out and actually listen to a Lambardini under load and i believe you will be rethinking trapped with this on a personal boat.

And I WAS talking about using an aircooled IC having been "marine-ized" (sp) in just sweet water.
You are talking about using this large fin surface area aliminum/magnesium  engine  with all of it's thin air flow covers a very open salt water spray environment. Only people able to afford the marine-izing (sp) upgrading, maintenance and higher rate of replacements of salty water air cooled IC engines has been cost plus marine aviation. You are just you; with the depth of your own pocket.

You did ask.
Steve Unruh

[Frank S]

I suppose this would be out of the question then


!2V92 700HP hydraulic driven prop the pod mounts on a work barge with 360Deg turning

You might check out this thread
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2679.0
or this one
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2800.15

[deckofficer]

Your right Steve I did ask. It is too bad that claims of the manufacturer might appear to be false. For what little I plan on needing the DC gen-set charger I figured 75 db a 7 meters was tolerable but your telling me from your personal experience that the Lambradini diesels are even louder than other air cooled diesels. This hands on experience is the reason I joined this forum. For my needs I don't see running the DC gen set much more than 200 hours per year, so don't need the longevity with the high price of a water cooled unit, and weight is a very important factor for me, so that leaves out all the engines designed to run at 1800 rpm, because for the same power out there is almost a 2 fold weight penalty for 1800 vs 3600. I know 3600 on an air cooled diesel is going to be very noisy, that is why I upped the displacement ante and thought the Lambradini at 23 hp @ 3600 would be a good candidate to give me 11 kw @ 2200 rpm.

I'm all ears for what the membership has for suggestions, knowing I want a bare minimum of 8 kw with the engine side of the package being under 180 lbs.

[deckofficer]

I suppose this would be out of the question then


!2V92 700HP hydraulic driven prop the pod mounts on a work barge with 360Deg turning

You might check out this thread
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2679.0
or this one
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2800.15

Way too big for my pleasure sailboat and way too small for the dynamically positioned rig I served on.

The rig......


My "office".....


Yours truly...........

[SPSInc]

Somebody on the forum had a used Kubota Z482 with the marine cooling kit up for sale. Kubota calls out the engine to weigh 117lbs.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2872.0

Put one of the PMGs on it with a variable speed controller and you would have a nice light compact generator. Probably should be able to get 7KW out of it.

[deckofficer]

Somebody on the forum had a used Kubota Z482 with the marine cooling kit up for sale. Kubota calls out the engine to weigh 117lbs.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2872.0

Put one of the PMGs on it with a variable speed controller and you would have a nice light compact generator. Probably should be able to get 7KW out of it.

The Z482 looks like a good candidate, thanks for the tip. 9kw rating from 479 cc IDI and only 117 lbs. Looks like I'm being steered to Kubota and other more reputable brands. My research missed this engine. After checking out Kubota's site, it looks like they have a line of engines in my needed power range and weight requirements.