a poll of the membership

[Ronmar]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?  6/1 and Changchi 1115.  Would like another 6/1 so I could run the two in paralel

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?  6HP and around 14HP

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?  AC only at this time bu this will change as I integrate batteries and inverter for low load demand power

4. how long have you had the unit?  Oldest one 2004? 

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year?  Backup power system, so depends on grid availability.  When in use, 12-16 hours per day to maintain food storage and dwelling heat

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?  backup power

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both?  Yes, domestic hot water and when that is at 120F, excess heat may be used to heat dwelling if needed

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?  kinda wastefull to NOT harvest it...

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?  Not at this time.  First automation will be automatic shutdown.  Next phase will be load sharing to charge batteries when other loads are low to maintain optimum loading on engine

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?  Yes

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.  Very important, particularly for a backup system as fuel storage is a finite resource.

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?  Internet, Library...

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?  always looking for more...

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?   I want the information I want when I want it:)  Preferably the exact answer will jump off the screen/page exactly when I am looking for it...

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?  Specifics on direct DC generation and control for efficient battery charging.

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.

thanks guys

bob g

[Rom]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?  Power Anand 16/2, Broadcrown 19kw

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover? Above

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both? AC only

4. how long have you had the unit? '09 for Lister Type, '08 for the Broadcrown

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year? Per Day

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or? With our power outages, Backup

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both? Do not harvest

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so? Not at this time

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart? No, found to be very expensive, easy to burn up equipment do to the nature of the grid failures

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price? For shutdown systems on the Lister, as a kit? Sure

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important. In the case of the Broadcrown, Very Important, having to burn 6.20$ a gal diesel. Lister burning WMO, not so much, cant burn it fast enough really.

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs? Internet

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design? Yes, I find 99% of what I need on Microcogen and Listerengine.

Rom

[Ian]

1.   what prime mover are you using or planning to use?
JKSon  Listeroid 12/1 (12HP @1000 rpm) running at 650 rpm.
Backup : Lister 5/1 (5HP @ 600 rpm; 6HP @ 650 rpm)

2.   what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?
Around 6-8 HP. Extracting 4.5 kW (electrical) continuously

3.   what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?
AC only.
TFW 3 phase 10 kVA brushless 400v. Majority rectified to 500v DC and fed into grid tie inverter.
Backup : 1 x STC 3 phase 8 kVA brushed 400v. 2 x 7.5 kVA single phase brushed ST 240v.

4.   how long have you had the unit? 
About 6-7 years. Running for about 4-5 years.

5.   how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year?
Only runs for the heating season – about 2000 hours per year.
Runs every day from 07:00 to about 22:00.

6.   is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?
We are grid tied. The unit provides 95% of all power used during run-time and exporting some to the grid. Unit can be used to provide 3 x individual single phases to the house if the grid is down. For extended grid downtime (if TSHTF scenario) – single phase 7.5 kW generators can be used.
(But here in UK we do not get serious grid downtime and maybe outages lasting a few seconds maybe once every 2 -3 years). Have never had to run the set off grid yet.

7.   do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water production, space heating or both?
Yes. Engine is cooled by thermosyphon (outlet thermostated to 88 degrees C) into a 200L drum. Drum contents circulated through exhaust gas heat exchangers and sent 25m to the house. A flat plate heat exchanger system transfers heat to the house system. This heat is then distributed to heat hot water, radiators and under floor heating systems.  Works well down to about -3 to -5C. Below this value electric fan heaters up to 3 kW or so are used to supplement the heating and still not draw power from the grid.

8.   if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?
N/A

9.   do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?
No. I have all the parts needed to autostart but at the moment the hand crank start is not too onerous. Additionally, the system runs for 14-15 hours per day unattended and I like the forced attendance to start and stop the engine so that I can see and maybe hear any problems that might occur.

10.   if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?
Maybe at some time in the future – but no real plans. Maybe I will fit the auto start components and continue to start and stop by hand.

11.   how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.
Somewhat important. Not because of cost – as I use WVO (free) but because poor efficiency means smoke, smell, and carbon. Smoke and smell annoys the neighbours and carbon means I have to de-coke the injector, head, and exhaust. It is for this reason that I purposely add in about 3 – 4 kW of natural gas continuously – as I BELIEVE that this helps the unit run cleaner. I can infinitely vary the natural gas addition from negligible up to about 50 - 60 litres per minute. Natural gas costs about 3p per kW hour. I have never decoked the exhaust and the last time I decoked the head was about 3000 hours ago. The injector is decoked every oil change at about 500 hours or so.

now a couple of other questions

12.   where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?
Nowhere in particular. It seems no-one else does what I do / want to do and publishes any information on it. Everything is trial and error.  Whenever I try to find specific information – I am nearly always frustrated.

13.   do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?
No, but I cannot imagine any scenario where I would answer differently. Can you have ENOUGH information ? It seems to me that you have to have the courage of your convictions and think about and around the subject enough so that you have probably covered off all the scenarios – and then act and learn from your mistakes.

14.   if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?
I want the Holy Grail!
Technical facts and specifications
Wear tolerances
Calculations
Torque values
Design guides
Access to knowledge from "old hands" that have worked with these systems all their lives
Tips and techniques
How to do things in an unorthodox way
Basic overviews – not necessarily equipment specific
Sources for spare parts
Questioning of conventional wisdom
Somewhere that I can find the answer to "why?"
...Well, you did ask!

15.   if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?
Real knowledge and feedback from people who have done it – for a long time.
Tips and tricks that have been learned the hard way over the years.
Basic principles that translate to most eventualities – not just a scenario for a certain voltage / frequency / fuel / battery bank / code / engine / generator / etc.
How to overcome problems


16.   please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.
Whilst I visit these forums most days in the hope of finding inspiration, I am usually disappointed. I regard these forums as public meeting places where people can have a good chat but very poor for the discussion of anything technical or of relevance to me. I find it frustrating when someone posts something that I deem helpful / useful / interesting but within 2- 3 posts you can be sure it has changed to politics / religion / banter / or something that looks to me as inane stuff just to get that person's post count up; whatever – it is going to be off topic. Perhaps more worrying is that sometimes information is plain wrong – even though the information was probably given in good faith. Also frustrating is the number of people who sound authoritative but have never done any of it themselves – what they PLAN to do – maybe sometime – but presented as hard fact.
Despite what I have just said, these forums are probably one of the best sources of information – if you can be bothered to sift through the 98% of off topic stuff!

[Horsepoor]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use? Metro 6/1 up rated to 800 rpm, GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm
2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover? About 8 hp on the 6/1 at 800 rpm and 17 hp on 20/2.
3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both? ST 7.5 & ST 15
4. how long have you had the unit?  2005 on GTC 20/2 & 2009 on Metro 6/1
5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year? Both units are for natural disasters (I.e. Hurricanes)
6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or? Emergency
7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water production, space heating or both? I have heat exchanger hardware installed on the 6/1 but have not finished the project.
8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so? Yes
9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart? Both listeroids have Murphy switch gage high temperature solenoid driven emergency shutdowns as well as a relay for shutdown if the AC generator losses power (I.e. broken belt). Water pump is 110V AC, don't to depend upon over temperature relay.  
10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price? Yes – really wish there was a SIMPLE AC generator frequency sensor that could nudge a governor to hold 59 to 61 hz.  
11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important. Moderately important.
12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs? Listeroid forums and experience of other owners.
13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design? Yes

[rl71459]

Hi Everyone
Thought it was about time I posted something.

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use? TK/Isuzu C201 Diesel

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover? The manual says 37 Hp

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both? ST-12, 1ph, AC only.

4. how long have you had the unit?  7+ Years.

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year? I use it for power outages as needed.

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or? Backup/emergency.

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both? No, I originally planned to but never did.

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so? See above

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart? No.

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price? Possiby.

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important. Moderately Important.

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs? Here, Other Internet sites...

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find? Not frusrtated.

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book? Everything, Drawings, Schematics, Plans....

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.



Rob

[sailawayrb]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use? Jackson 6/1 Listeroid purchased from George/Joel.  Use diesel (for starting and shutting down) and SVO, propane and natural gas for operation.

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover? 6 HP

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?  ST 5 generator wired for 120V because 240V was NOT required for my needs and to also: 1) eliminate generator "growling" caused by electrical load unbalance (which occurs whenever STs are wired for 240V and are used for 120V without also using balancing transformers), 2) allow 100% of the generator full rated power to feed any single 120V circuit in my transfer switch panel (instead of being limited to ONLY 50% of the full rated power to any single 120V circuit whenever STs are wired for 240V without also using balancing transformers), and 3) AVOID HAVING TO USE BALANCING TRANSFORMERS ALTOGETHER. This system feeds 100% of the generator full rated power 120V to each and both sides of the transfer switch panel (instead of being limited to ONLY 50% of the full rated power 120V to each side whenever STs are wired for 240V unless you also use balancing transformers).

4. how long have you had the unit? Since 2004.

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run, per day, week, month or year? Only as required for backup power.

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or? Backup power.

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat? if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both? No.

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so? do you have any interest in doing so? No, there are better ways to obtain and use free heat.

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?  Use carbon dioxide to provide emergency shutdown either via manual push button or sensed high head temp, high/low oil level, high vibration level, high/low engine RPM, low diesel fuel tank level, smoke, carbon monoxide or if the 12 VDC power supply fails. Design objective was 100% guaranteed emergency shutdown without depending on human intervention or electrical power.

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?  Entire house uses home automation.  Have full control of all house lights, electrical outlets, heating, AC, security system functions, home theater functions, parsing of desired data off the www, and video camera imaging all via voice recognition in the house or externally via phone or Internet.

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.  Most important.

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?  I am both an electrical engineer and mechanical engineer, and research a subject thoroughly before settling on a design approach.

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?  Yes, but there is also a lot of misinformation on the Internet too.

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?   There is sufficient info available and I don't have any problem discarding the fiction from the non-fiction.

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?  Books have largely become obsolete and there is now more current, useful and free info available via the Internet.

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=351

http://www.borstengineeringconstruction.com/Calculators.html

Bob B.

[BigGreen]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use? Ashwamegh 25/2

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover? See Above

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both? ST-15

4. how long have you had the unit?  Since 2005

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year? ~40 hr total

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or? Hurricane emergency

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  No

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart? No

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price? Yes

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important. Somewhat

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs? Here

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design? Yes

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.

[moonweav]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?  Kubota d722 3 cyl diesel

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?    20 HP

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?   AC 

4. how long have you had the unit?     3 years

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year? 20 or 30 hrs/yearly

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?   emergency

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both?  Do not harvest waste heat

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?  No interest at this time

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart? Manual start.  Murphy switches on everything else for shutdown

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?  No.   I like manual start.  Need to hear "noises" should  they be present

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important. Moderately important

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs? Years of looking at different designs. Lots of informal research.

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design? Yes

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find? N?A

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book? 

[Carlb]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?
Metro 6/1

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?
6hp

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?
AC

4. how long have you had the unit?
Since 2007

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year?
Only run during power outages and exercising every month or so

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?
Backup only

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both?
no

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?
no

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?
no

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?
no

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.
VERY VERY efficient (i run diesel as pilot only and fogged Natural gas as the prime fuel source)

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?
mostly here and the other Lister forum

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?
yes

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?
N/A

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.

[deckofficer]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?
That is why I'm here. Want something less than 180 lbs
2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?
10~23 kw that is less than 180 lbs, so 3600 rpm unit.
3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?
Will be DC only to charge 48 volt lithium bank
4. how long have you had the unit? 
N/A
5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year?
<200 hours per year
6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?
Primary for "hotel" loads, back up for sailboat propulsion.
7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both?
Hot water.

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?
Forums such as this one and the Cruiser's Forum, google searches
13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?
I'm getting there
14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?
I would like to see a list with specs of all available small diesels.
15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?
More places to purchase lithium batteries.
16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/2012/03/13/integration-of-systems/

[Thob]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?
Kubota D600

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?
14 HP  (max gross 3600 rpm)  about 10HP (2400 RPM continous)

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?
ST 7.5KW, AC only

4. how long have you had the unit?
~1 year

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year?
~2 hours per month

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?
backup/emergency/portable power

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both?
No

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?
Not much interest

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?
no

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?
If needed, yes.

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.
very important

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?
This web site, utterpower, otherpower, lister engine forum, mfg info.

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?
Mostly

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?
I live in Dallas/Fort Worth Texas area, our biggest need is for air conditioning.  Which is more cost effective: solar A/C, natural gas absorption A/C, natural gas engine driven A/C?
15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?

I'd like to see more information about air conditioning, especially DIY systems, both absorption and compressor systems.  How to build a system of a certain capacity, for example.  What kind of real world performance is available.

It would be helpful to have a chapter on economics: how to calculate cost payback, etc.

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.

[KeithO]

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?Ruston Hornby 1yba

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover? 4 hp @ 1000 rpm

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both? 5 kw st head AC

4. how long have you had the unit? 2 years

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year? 8 hrs / day when required

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?  primary , backed up with renewables

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both? not yet

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so? Yes , but only if I can find an easy/lazy/low maintenance way to do it

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart? no

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price? No , only remote stop

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important. Not very ,reliability and ease of maintenance is more important

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?Google

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?Its all out there if your patient

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?
Info on installations  that have been running for an extended period ie. cogen / gasification

[Ian]

This is an addition to my earlier reply (#17). 

I thought I had provided feedback to the questions asked with the information available at the time but since that post Bob has indicated that his purpose was to try to persuade Bill Rodgers to write another book. A few days have passed and I have been thinking a bit more about my enlightenment – I think if I want help, then I have to help someone to help me. So, here are a few more areas that I would love to see covered by a knowledgeable soul.....(or 2 or 3 souls or....)

Sorry, I think this is going to be a long post. First part will be stuff that I think a Bill Rodgers type may be interested in as points for starters, and then the remainder will be Lister engine related (and any other mind ramblings that occur as I write this).

1.   Is the generator seeing an inductive, capacitive or resistive load when its output is full wave rectified and fed into a grid tied inverter ?
2.   A scope on my generator output shows very flat peaks and troughs on the sine wave. Is this detrimental to the generator in any way ?  Is it detrimental to any other equipment I have running off of the generator at the same time (motors, heaters, pumps, fans, battery chargers) ?(Background : I full wave rectify the output of my 3 phase generator and feed it into a grid tie inverter. With no inverter load the voltage is 560v DC; with a 3.5 kW inverter load the voltage is 500v DC)
3.   What techniques are best used to smooth the ripple of a 3 phase generator that has been full wave rectified to DC. How each technique is selected, what are the implications, and how are the component specs calculated? (Background : My grid tie inverter has a stated maximum of 10% ripple current which I am probably exceeding. This is probably stressing the capacitors of the grid tie front end. 550 - 600v DC is a tough ask for most high capacity, high ripple current capacitors. I believe a choke could also be used but do not know how to specify or calculate requirements – or know the implications).
4.   How to know when to use a snubber circuit to protect contacts ? How to calculate the component values and test that it does the job required ? (Background : I use a number of timers for pumps and heaters. The contacts on the timers are all rated for resistive loads but not all the loads are resistive.)
5.   How to get a solid state relay [mains control input, mains output] to reliably operate an induction motor. (Background: I tried it and the motor operated intermittently with a lot of stuttering – my solution was to remove the SSR and hope the motor did not burn out the resistive rated contacts of the timer!)
6.   Why does my RCD trip when I try to be safe and bond my generator neutral star point to earth rather than let it float? The RCD does not trip when the star point floats.
7.   How to select and properly set up current transformers. (Background: I have installed a 3 phase network monitor in my generator – which requires current transformers to monitor current. The current transformers output are not what I would have expected. Example – the output is substantially different when 1 full turn is used instead of a single pass through; the output from 2 turns is not double that from one turn, etc.)


Now the Lister stuff..
8.   Should injection timing be advanced or retarded (and by how much) when using WVO as fuel?
9.   When fumigating the inlet with natural gas, should the injection timing be advanced or retarded (and by how much)?
10.   Should the injector pop pressure be increased for WVO (and how much)?
11.   Should the injector spray pattern be changed when using WVO?
12.   Would a pintle type nozzle be better for WVO use?
13.   Why do some engines have cold valve clearances four times greater than similar engines in the same range? (Background : 8/1 = 8 thou I & E; 6/1 = 17 thou I and 32 thou E. The pushrods are external and the range tends to run quite cool – so why the difference in clearances?)
14.   What is the IDEAL temperature to run a diesel engine and why ? Is the ideal different when running WVO?
15.   If a glow plug is fitted, should the compression ratio be reduced as starting is now not reliant on cold compression temperatures?
16.   Has anyone with a CS had oil analysis undertaken and published the results?
17.   What quantity of leak-off from the injector is considered to be normal and at what level would it be considered excessive?
18.   What are the pop test standards for a CS? Pressure?  Drip time? Pressure fall-back time? Others?
19.   Spill timing for a 6/1 is 18 – 20 degrees BTDC. I think the 8/1 is around 32 degrees BTDC. The 6/1 is rated for 650 rpm and the 8/1 (I think 800rpm). Does this 150rpm difference really justify such a large advance ? What should the advance be for the clone 1000 rpm machines? What else determines injection timing?
20.   I use a dynamic strobe injection timing test as well as spill timing. Are the two tests directly comparable ? Spill timing shows the point at which the element starts to build pressure whilst the strobe detects the point at which the injector pops (I think). Should there be any allowances made for the timing set points for the two different test methods?
21.   Old timer diesel mechanics tell me that the compression ratio and spill timing should be set to the absolute minimum to do the job. CR should be set to the absolute minimum to start at the coldest temperature likely to be experienced, whilst spill timing should be set by ear so that it is retarded to the point just before the engine stutters. Both (apparently) will protect the big end and provide for maximum life. Is this true ?
22.   With oil costing £20 - £30 for 4 – 5 litres and oil filters at £5 - £10 each, might it be more cost effective to run the oil for a much longer time and accept some increased engine wear ? Components are not cheap but could possibly be paid for by the saving of maybe 10 oil changes ?
23.   What are the main reasons for changing the oil on a Lister CS? Acidification? Fuel contamination? Soot build-up? High / low viscosity? Wear particle build-up? Water contamination? My engine runs the oil hot, runs daily for at least 12 hours and has an oil filter plus I overfill to 5 litres. What can I see / measure that determines when an oil change is due rather than an hour count?
24.   Lister introduced bronze backed big end top shells for engines with the heavy flywheels. Any disadvantages to using them on the spoked flywheel engines?
25.   Is there a DIY / cost effective way of hardening the crank journal of a Listeroid crank marked "EN9"?
26.   What are the requirements for torque specs for cylinder head nuts? I have seen figures quoted between 70– 170 lbft. How is it determined properly?
27.   Why did Lister elect to use a steel main camshaft bearing instead of bronze like that used at the other end? What is the advantage?
28.   I believe that some Lister CS' were operated, unattended, in the Australian desert as telephonic repeater stations for up to a month 24/7 before servicing. How were the rockers and valve stems lubed? What was the oil sump capacity?

[Tom Reed]

Lots of great questions there. I'd like to know many of them too.

[ArcticCogen]

Hey, how did I miss this in September?   Lets give it a bump!



it is assumed that most here have at least a genset they are using, planning on building so.

1. what prime mover are you using or planning to use?

GTC 6/1 for charging, Kubota Z482 for AC

2. what hp or kwatt (mechanical) output is the prime mover?

6hp @ 650 for the 6/1, 13hp @ 3600 for the super mini

3. what generator are you using? AC only? DC only? or both?

DC on the Listeroid is a from a Zena 150A alternator. 
Looking at a Northstar 6kw with a Hayes drive for the Kubota (haven't decided yet)

4. how long have you had the unit? 

Had the 6/1 for a year and a half.  Gen set is 99% completed, just waiting on summer for first smoke.
Same age for the Kubota but its still sitting on the pallet...

5. how long does it run or are you planning to run,  per day, week, month or year?

Planning to run the Listeroid on weekends in the winter, just to exercise it and keep the batteries topped.

6. is the unit used for primary power, backup, emergency, or?

Listeroid will be all three, as necessary!

7. do you harvest the waste heat and use that heat?  if so for what purpose? domestic hot water
production, space heating or both?

Waste heat to the shop for space heating.

8. if you are not harvesting the waste heat, are you planning to do so?  do you have any interest in doing so?

9. do you use any form of automation, such as autostart?

The Listeroid has auto compression engage and auto shutdowns for high temp, high rpm, and low oil level.

10. if you do not use automation, would you do so if it were commonly available and reasonable in price?

Planning to hang an Atkinson controller (like the old GenWizard) on the Kubota when I do it.

11. how would you rank fuel efficiency of a unit, not very important, somewhat important, moderately important, very important, or most important.

Fuel efficiency importance is proportional to the run time.

now a couple of other questions

12. where do you find the information you rely on to make decisions about your genset designs?

I got a lot of info and leads from this forum.  Also from the Listerengines forum and the Utterpower site.

13. do you feel that there is enough information available to you to make good decisions regarding design?

There is if you know where to find it and have enough common sense and experience to separate the useful
stuff from the nonsense.

14. if you are frustrated or find it difficult to find information, what sorts of information would you like to find?

I find the best stuff comes from project write-ups with details and pictures (mine will be coming, I promise!) so that's what I like to find.

15. if there was a book available on some facet or facets of power generation for offgrid applications such as what is typical on this forum, what would you find as being a must have or rather what would you like to see in such a book?

A book should stress the basics: ohm's law, efficiency, the stuff that never gets outdated.

16. please feel free to add other comments that you might have an interest in sharing.

Great idea for a topic!